Georgian Lightwell wall

[Rollo]

Hi Folks

The exterior lightwell wall outside my property (under the pavement) has been poorly maintained and rendered/painted with non-porous materials. Although it's below the public pavement, it looks to be the responsibility of the property to repair it.

Having removed some of the failing render, it looks like much of the mortar has been affected by trapped moisture and is now failing, with some bricks loose and broken.

Has anyone undertaken similar repair work? I'm keen to find a contractor with experience of old buildings and using lime mortar, rather than just a brickie but struggling to find anyone reputable with experience of doing this kind of job.

Any advice welcome.

Thanks

 

[Cubist]

In your shoes I would want to assure myself that the wall represents a legal boundary for my property and as such I would be obligated to make any repairs. My concern is founded on the assumption that the pavement above is a public footpath which is or should be maintained by the local authority and, as such, the retaining wall may well be the authorities responsibility to maintain.

You need also to be wary of your civil liabilities should there be a collapse or blockage resulting from any of your actions.

 

[LadyArowana]

I take it you don’t have anything like ‘vaults’ which extend under the pavement / highway? I only ask because we have a Georgian property and that’s how ours is organised so the equivalent of your wall on ours is most definitely “ours”. Assuming that the wall is down to you to maintain then subject to advice from wiser minds than mine I’m thinking lime pointing / render and lots of lovely limewash. I have recently discovered the joy of limewash, which has vastly improved a rather nasty damp cave like place and made it suitable as a workshop.

 

[Stevers]

I take it you don’t have anything like ‘vaults’ which extend under the pavement / highway?

There's an arch through to something on the left. We had one about that height in a retaining wall and it turned out to the top half of a full height passage that has been partially buried. There's even a void behind ours - about 6" deep, before the neighbour's filling in starts.

 

[Rollo]

In your shoes I would want to assure myself that the wall represents a legal boundary for my property and as such I would be obligated to make any repairs. My concern is founded on the assumption that the pavement above is a public footpath which is or should be maintained by the local authority and, as such, the retaining wall may well be the authorities responsibility to maintain.

You need also to be wary of your civil liabilities should there be a collapse or blockage resulting from any of your actions.

I spoke to the local council and they said it is the freeholders responsibility annoyingly. They said that as the railings above are part of the freehold, the wall below them also would be. I'm also going to double check the deeds. Council advised that we'd need their permission to do anything which could affect the pavement above.

 

[Rollo]

I take it you don’t have anything like ‘vaults’ which extend under the pavement / highway? I only ask because we have a Georgian property and that’s how ours is organised so the equivalent of your wall on ours is most definitely “ours”. Assuming that the wall is down to you to maintain then subject to advice from wiser minds than mine I’m thinking lime pointing / render and lots of lovely limewash. I have recently discovered the joy of limewash, which has vastly improved a rather nasty damp cave like place and made it suitable as a workshop.

When removing the old mortar, i realised there may be a vault on the left side, as there's an arch that looks like it's been filled in. Presume it was an old coal storage vault. No idea when it was blocked up. Would be nice to reinstate for storage, but guessing that would cost a lot and be a much bigger job as its under the pavement.

Will definitely be raking out the old, failed mortar and using lime to repoint. Then either keep the bricks exposed and add some more weep vents and air bricks, or lime render/lime wash. I'm going to do the basic stuff like removal myself, then need to find a contractor who's done the same job elsewhere.

 

[Rollo]

There's an arch through to something on the left. We had one about that height in a retaining wall and it turned out to the top half of a full height passage that has been partially buried. There's even a void behind ours - about 6" deep, before the neighbour's filling in starts.

I'd love the idea of getting some extra space and opening up the vault, but suspect it would be a much more expensive job and could lead to all kinds of trouble. I just want to make it stable and nice to look at, without the failing mortar and brickwork.

 

[Rollo]

I'm also keen to get this weird stone effect render redone as well. This wall joins the one I've partially uncovered and there's a couple of them like it. Not exactly sure what was done, but there's a wall nearby which is stone block and I think someone has tried to make render look like stone in these places, but the render is crumbling and flaking, presumably due to moisture and frost over the years.

 

[Stevers]

I'm also keen to get this weird stone effect render redone as well.

That looks like real stone to me, albeit stone that's perished. There is a source of sandstone on the North Downs, but that's got a good reputation, and this looks very soft and limey, I wonder if it's a harder sort of chalk block, or a softer sort of limestone. The problem of finding skilled labour would go away if you were able to tackle this yourselves with a really soft and forgiving lime mortar NHL2 or weaker. The soft friable stone may just be on the surface with something sounder below. Latterly I worked in IT, but have done a lot of repointing of stonework, including rebuilding retaining walls, so this sort of thing is very DIY'able in manageable phases.

I've found repointing the most rewarding and lasting diy job. I apply with a long narrow pointing iron in strips from mortar squished on a polishing float. I wait for suction to dry it a bit on the wall, then I rub/push in with a stick, before bashing in and off with a brush. As long as the mix is dryish and kept off the faces this gives a very professional looking result.

 

[Rollo]

That looks like real stone to me, albeit stone that's perished. There is a source of sandstone on the North Downs, but that's got a good reputation, and this looks very soft and limey, I wonder if it's a harder sort of chalk block, or a softer sort of limestone. The problem of finding skilled labour would go away if you were able to tackle this yourselves with a really soft and forgiving lime mortar NHL2 or weaker. The soft friable stone may just be on the surface with something sounder below. Latterly I worked in IT, but have done a lot of repointing of stonework, including rebuilding retaining walls, so this sort of thing is very DIY'able in manageable phases.

I've found repointing the most rewarding and lasting diy job. I apply with a long narrow pointing iron in strips from mortar squished on a polishing float. I wait for suction to dry it a bit on the wall, then I rub/push in with a stick, before bashing in and off with a brush. As long as the mix is dryish and kept off the faces this gives a very professional looking result.

Thanks! Sounds like you've done a lot more that my level of DIY! I'm really not sure what the blocks are. There's some solid stone, but other parts look different and look like someone tried to match the effect. The house is part of a long terrace, but weirdly we're the only one that has the visible stone/stone effect. Not sure if all the others were historically rendered over.

From this photo you can see that either side of the white painted smooth render look different in their material/constriction. Looks like the right side is stone block, but not sure about the left. And the left is closer to the previous image I posted.

 

[Stevers]

Thanks! Sounds like you've done a lot more that my level of DIY!

It's at the level of playing with mud - mixed a bucket or two at a time!

I'm really not sure what the blocks are.

A lot of Portland and Purbeck stone found its way to London, largely because it could be taken out of a cliff and craned into a waiting barge. That sort of stone runs from Portland all the way up to Lincolnshire. In that picture the stone reminds me of the White Lias on the front of our house, and if I had to bet I'd say White Lias from Portland - but not one of the better grades.

 

[LadyArowana]

When removing the old mortar, i realised there may be a vault on the left side, as there's an arch that looks like it's been filled in. Presume it was an old coal storage vault. No idea when it was blocked up. Would be nice to reinstate for storage, but guessing that would cost a lot and be a much bigger job as its under the pavement.

Will definitely be raking out the old, failed mortar and using lime to repoint. Then either keep the bricks exposed and add some more weep vents and air bricks, or lime render/lime wash. I'm going to do the basic stuff like removal myself, then need to find a contractor who's done the same job elsewhere.

Probably depends if they just popped a bunch of blockwork in the entrance, called it “job done” and painted all over it. Our original window openings to the vaults had been similarly abused leaving only a narrow gap at the top. The lightwell was therefore unfondly called the “Prison Yard”. As part of our Listed Building Application we opened up the windows to original size and were allowed actual double glazed casements. The area looks a lot better, and after some botanical additions is called “The Fernery”. It’s possble that lazy builders thought your space was the perfect place to save the cost of a skip and it’ll be a relatively simple job to open up the original arch and clear out some junk. People do similar work to re-instate bricked up or reduced size fireplaces. Obviously would need to be looked at by a competent person to determine what’s going on with yours but at least in theory you might gain some extra storage.

 

[Rollo]

Did some more work this weekend and removed most of the render. Also managed to get a glimpse into the left hand vault and can see that it's full of earth/rubble. As much as it would be handy to have some storage space, i'm not sure I can face clearing out all the earth. Probably a good few tonnes worth.

My challenge is now finding someone to do the repointing and repairs to the brickwork. Quite a few bricks are broken/breaking and a lot of the mortar is failing. I don't think there's risk of the wall or pavement collapsing as the vaults will support the pavement, but it looks like a reasonable sized job.

Spoke with one company who are supposedly brick repair specialists and they advised just lime washing the bricks! Not repointing or anything! I can only assume they didn't want the job so fobbed me off.

If anyone has any suggestions for good brickies/builders in north London with experience repairing and using lime mortar, I'm open to advice!