Help! Constructive advice wanted please

[Bowlander]

Hello

I have a stone rubble mid terraced house in north Lancashire, built about 1800. Its more or less a 2 up 2 down. The front and rear walls have been repointed with cement (as has the whole street) and the rear wall has been siliconed. The walls are mostly limestone, with some sandstone mixed in. I have damp ingress around the back door, around the stone jambs i think. I am aware of the need for the old building to breathe etc. My questions are:
1. The cement pointing at the back is very hard indeed, will there be more damage done getting it out as opposed to leaving it in? Can a "breathable render" be applied over the top of the existing cement pointing and masonry?

2. If the answer to the above is "no" and I have to get everything done in lime, will the render stick to siliconed stone?

3. Does anyone know of any northern experts who could help me out? My property has several problems, but this is the main one.

Finally, please be positive in your replies, i am at my wits end with this house and comments like "ooooh, that will cost a packet" etc, just wont help my mental health!

Thanks very much in anticipation.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Bowlander,

Welcome to the forum and I'm sorry your house has not been treated well in the past, and that inevitably, damp is now a problem.

Experts will be along shortly, but my take would be that applying a breathable render over an inpermeable surface (be it cement pointing or a siliconce coating) will have no positive effect at all. I would suggest you really need to remove the waterproof coatings/pointing if the building will be able to breathe.

As you fear, removing cement pointing can damage soft stone - but there is nothing to lose by trying to remove some yourself and seeing how easy it is.

On the money front; well, you can now save the cost of putting a breathable render on top of an unbreatheable surface! :wink: Raking out the pointing is something that is time consuming but not difficult and you could do this yourself.

I don't know how you would go about removing a silicone coating. It's amazing where peope put silicone these days - house walls and French busts. Whatever next? 8)

A closer look around the door may identify where the damp is getting in? That might help others advise also - as may some pictures.

Robin

 

[MdB]

Welcome!

Pics would be useful!

 

[Feltwell]

Welcome!

I presume the silicone used is the brush-on, "Thompsons Waterseal" or similar? If so, the good news is that it is apparently not very effective (from old posts on here) so I'm not sure it will have done much harm. Also, if you are re-pointing anyway, then the new lime pointing will definitely breathe.

As for the cement pointing - as others said, try removing a little and see how it goes. Use hand tools - don't attack it with an SDS drill. The only exception is that sometimes a small angle grinder can be used with GREAT care to make a slot in the middle of pointing to then chip the surrounding mortar into, if you see what I mean.

For your damp ingress, can you see any visible cracking? It may be that local repair will solve that. If you search the forum for "burnt sand mastic", that is a traditional sealant normally used around wooden window and door frames that may be of use, it's very easy to make - I've used it to good effect, I don't use modern mastic sealants externally any more.

 

[Lime]

As has been said, the silicone will make no difference to the adhesion of the mortar.
Its effect is temporary and fleeting and after a few months will not change anything.
Using a small angle grinder as described above is a good idea.
The cut/slit will give a moving space/gap and enable the hard cement to move away from the stone without impacting with the adjacent stone.
It's important to try not to move the stone, always hit in a direction away from it.
Use small chisels and keep them sharp all the time.
(A cheap grinder on site will do the job very quickly every few minutes)
Don't use heavy hammers, use the lightest you can get away with so that you keep the impact energy to a minimum.

 

[middi]

Welcome.

There is no need to despair, you need to accept the fact that someone has used inappropriate materials to repoint/reseal the elevations of the stone building.

As other posters have mentioned, you need to carefully remove all this " cosmetically" applied material and repoint/repair/ replace the odd stone using lime based mortar.

Ok, it is tedious and time consuming but only superficial to the wall face and it should not involve " rebuilding", only repointing. The cost should be negligible if you can tackle the job yourself.

Also, it is something that can be done slowly and gradually over a period of time untill the whole " reponting" is complete

It should be quite relaxing ( once you get into it :wink: )

If all else fails find the vandal that applied that horrible stuff to the walls and shoot him/her

Middi

 

[Penners]

It's amazing where people put silicone these days - house walls and French busts. Whatever next?

Welcome to the forum, Bowlander.

Unfortunately for you, the French Government won't pay to have the silicone removed from your house wall.

If I understand your explanation correctly, you have a house that has been inappropriately treated with cement and silicone. You also have some trouble with water ingress around your back door.

I know I'm restating what you have already said, but I'm seeking to draw a bit of line between these two problems.

The key question is this: are they cause and effect? They may not be.

In my opinion, your best plan would be to tackle the two problems separately. First, tackle the leaks around the door. Look very carefully and minutely for routes that the water will be finding to get in, and caulk them.

Next, I suggest, do nothing. Wait and watch to see whether you have properly cured the leaks. Then see whether the cement pointing and silicone treatment are actually doing, or permitting to be done, anything harmful to the building. If they're not then, unfortunate though these treatments may be, you're probably better to leave them in place. Removal of the pointing has the potential to cause considerable damage, and the silicone is clearly impossible to remove.

To resort to my favourite hackneyed saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[Feltwell]

See - if you're slightly confused, go to an internet forum and ask for advice.

Then you'll get properly confused :wink:

We'll have none of this wishy-washy slightly confused lark round'ere y'know.

 

[Penners]

See - if you're slightly confused, go to an internet forum and ask for advice.

Then you'll get properly confused

Unless, like me, you were terminally confused before you ever arrived here.

Have I had my tea yet?

 

[Feltwell]

Don't know Penners, my brain has been shaken to bits this morning by the need to drill a 1" hole through the foundations of my house for a power cable. What little sense I had has now been shook up to an unrecognisable state.

I'm absolutely knackered now, and my arm muscles - what little there are - are pumped up solid and hurt like hell. Even though I drilled a 1/2" and 3/4" hole first, putting a 1" diameter 3' long drill through tested both me and the poor old SDS drill to the limit! Added to the fact that it was, unavoidably, right next to the water pipe coming into the house..... :shock: The tools to turn the water off at the stopcock in the pavement outside were on "red alert"!

 

[Penners]

Having done similar jobs in my time, Feltwell, I sympathise. One consolation: think how you might have managed the job before there were power/hammer action/SDS drills.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Don't know Penners, my brain has been shaken to bits this morning by the need to drill a 1" hole through the foundations of my house for a power cable.

and

Think how you might have managed the job before there were power/hammer action/SDS drills.

Am I the only one thinking there were other reasons that the Tudors didn't install power cables, other than the lack of a decent SDS drill? :wink: 8)

 

[Feltwell]

Candles are under-rated. If drilling the hole wasn't bad enough, I'm now feeding a very long length of thick, heavy, cumbersome armoured cable through a tight and twisting course. What a pig of a job. That's why I'm posting so much today - I keep stopping for a breather! (and to patch my fingers up - ouch!)

One consolation: think how you might have managed the job before there were power/hammer action/SDS drills.

Very true - a long hand drill and a club hammer doesn't really appeal.

 

[Feltwell]

Am I the only one thinking there were other reasons that the Tudors didn't install power cables, other than the lack of a decent SDS drill? :wink: 8)

The Tudors didn't install them, but clearly the Georgians did :wink:

http://www.socketsandswitches.com/?SKSID=829&SKSGenus=16&gclid=CLzxj7LIu60CFaEhtAodADXrBA

 

[Penners]

And clearly the Victorians must have had domestic electricity, in order to power their computers (although maybe this one ran on steam).

 

[JohnB]

Surely the Tudors would have installed the cable while building the house, so they didn't need to drill holes .

 

[tobydog]

Given the title of this thread, you guys really are the masters of digression :roll:

 

[Penners]

Oh yes - Fred Drift is our constant companion. :wink:

But I don't think many people go away without the best consideration and advice that we're able to give, before we wander off into the land of irrelevancies.

 

[middi]

Also, it feels so relaxing trying to solve someone elses problem without lifting a finger !!!!! ( exept to use the keyboard). No lifting, drilling, carrying, cold, dark, wet covered in plaster and/or plasters etc. Better still, any apprehension about your own problems disappear.

( go on, who's going to disagree with the truth. We love it really :wink: )

Middi

 

[Fred Drift]

Talking of the price of mice, has anyone seen Joce's new chicken jacuzzi?