Hoping to purchase Grade 2* C17 farmhouse, would love some advice/ guidance post survey, queries to raise and watchouts.

[Lucy&Gus]

Hi all - New member here

I have been looking around alot of the threads over the past few days and reading alot of the advice, which has helped me alot already, but its still quite overwhelming! I am hoping by posting here I can be signposted to some more specific threads/websites or just offered a general steer for info. So sorry for the VERY long post.

My partner and I are currently in the process of buying a C17 grade 2* farmhouse, which we have fallen in love with. We have had the survey report back (level 3 RICS) and it's flagged up a few concerns, which don't get me wrong we were expecting, but some were rather......scary (in our eyes). We have raised some inital queries via our solicitor for the vendor, but what I would love is to pick your brains on anything else we should potentially raise, concerns, specialists to instruct and I guess sense check if we are letting our hearts rule our heads.

To proivde a little context, the two big issues were:

• Evidence of wood boring insects; evidence of them everywhere, even in the separate annex. Current vendor has no certificate of treatement, and this issue was raised in their survey 6 years ago (which detailed woodworm and death watch beetle). We have said as a first step we want the house and annex fully reviewed and treated by a specialist with an inusrance backed guarentee. Would we be right in asking for further work to understand the full extent of the damage to the building? I have tried to do a little digging on the forum about this area, which has given great advice, but just wonder what we should deem acceptable to proceed with this situation.
• Roof Structure: (taken snippets from report) In poor condition overall, with clear evidence of significant age realted deterioration to a number of structural timber members. Several timbers display pronounced wear, surface loss, splitting, notching and distortion. In addition, there is visible evidence consistent with wood-boring insect attack to some sections of timber, together with deterioration which may be associated with fungal decay and rot, particularly where timbers appear to have been exposed to prolonged moisture ingress. The cumulative effect is that the roof structure now appears to be of mixed condition and uncertain adequacy. In a number of locations, the timbers appear over stressed, poorly formed or no longer performing as originally intended. This raises concern as to the long term adequacy of the structure supporting the roof coverings. Based on the visible condition here, it is possible that substantial structural repairs or partial to full replacement of sections of the roof structure may ultimately prove necessary. Given the poor visible condition of the roof timbers, the evidence of timber deterioration, likelywood-boring insect activity, possible rot and the potential for vermin and protected species to be present, this element requires urgent further investigation. In summary, the roof structure must be regarded as a serious defect. (N.B The roof is welsh slate/ not thatched and we are aware that bats roost threre during the summer (wish they would have eaten the woodworm!! ) Due to the concerns raised around the structural integrity of the roof, the report also flagged concers over the below ceilings. Our surveyor recommended that we request a specialist inspection with a timber & damp specialist (for degradation) or a structural engineer.

There was also evidence of internal dampness, with elevated moisture levels in places (lower levels), the readings obtained suggested possible prescence of damp in wall structure and some of the walls are drylined. In these circumstances, when damp is found, is it reversable/treatable? Given the evidence of woodworm, we naturally want to minimize dampness!

Sorry it's alot, just trying to get my head around all of this, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Lucy

 

[jamest]

I'm sure you'll get lots of responses to your queries. I'll just say a couple of things. You'd be very hard put to find a 17th century building that does not have evidence of woodboring insects. Probably there isn't one in existence. My parents owned an old barn in Kent and old woodworm holes were in every exposed timber beam, often in prolific numbers so the beams looked like sponges and yet there was no problem whatsoever. Most of the time the woodworm only eat the sapwood and sapwood is of no structural significance.

Anyway, having said that, if you have active woodworm, if your timbers are elm (rather than oak) and you have evidence of deathwatch beetle (rather than one of the other species), then you need to do something and that something is get the timber dry - worms don't eat dry timber. Treating with chemicals is a complete waste of time and money as the poison will not penetrate into the heartwood and so won't kill any worm doing actual structural damage and won't treat the underlying problem (which is moisture).

If there are leaks in the roof, cement renders on the walls, ground levels above floor level, plastic sheets on the floor or under the screed, a lack of ventilation, then there will be moisture soaking into your timbers and making them into a meal for the woodworm. Get rid of plastic and cement, ventilate the spaces, fix the leaks and lower the external ground levels (whichever apply). If I've missed something obvious, others will fill the gaps.

 

[jamest]

I should probably have said congratulations on your (potential) purchase and welcome, but somehow I neglected to do so!

 

[Lucy&Gus]

I should probably have said congratulations on your (potential) purchase and welcome, but somehow I neglected to do so!

Ahh thank you James I am honeslty so excited and we are both keen to learn more on maintaining this beautiful property, we feel so lucky.!!

Re your original post; yes you're right there probably isnt an unmunched historic house - we knew this would be a massive part of our maintenance - most of the listed parts of the house are the decortative wooden elements, so keen to understand requirements fully!

I believe the roof timbers are predominantly oak (oak purlins and oak ridge beams) and some timbers have been replaced with softwood(?).
Uncertain on active/ vs inactive woodworm. The vendors previous report (6 years ago) stated ‘some evidence of active beetle infestation’. My gut feeling would be due to this & evidence of damp/mould, with the lack of any maintenance/treatment for the woodworm; there is a high chance they are active up there. As a result of this, our thinking is getting the timbers in the roof and any leaks fixed/replaced to minimize moisture and treat as soon as possible (working with LBC and ecologists).

Your builds in your last paragraph – is that ways to manage damp throughout the house including the roof? This is an area I need to still research.

 

[jamest]

If there is active beetle infestation or historic damage to timbers by rot or death watch beetle, then the best advice would be that obtained from a specialist surveyor or timber expert who is not trying to sell you something other than their expertise. That is, they're not trying to sell you a chemical treatment of some kind. A surveyor who deals with old buildings and knows about timber is what you need and they will be able to tell you if anything needs replacing or repairing and how best to manage moisture. That's what I would do. The only timber that needs any treatment is that which cannot be kept dry, like fence posts that are buried in the soil.

As for managing damp, then yes - the things I mentioned are the way to do it. You need to avoid trapping moisture in the building fabric, so you need to remove (as far as possible) all moisture impermeable materials from the walls and floors. The way old houses deal with moisture is to allow it free passage to evaporate out of the fabric once it gets in. Of course, you want to minimize the ingress of water too, so fixing roof leaks, leaks in rainwater goods, the ability to penetrate into brickwork (by repointing or re-rendering) and lowering the external ground to below interior floor level are critical too. A lot of work is DIYable and if you use traditional materials like lime, clay and oak, there's no risk of poisoning yourself or the wild life.

 

[a twig]

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/ive-just-bought-an-old-house-and-its-damp-help.17689/ might be a good starting point - it’s a very high level run through the basics

 

[skierhughes]

Congratulations

"most of the listed parts of the house are the decortative wooden elements, so keen to understand requirements fully!"

Just in case, as I can take your line above in two ways, the whole house, including all of the curtilage (garden) and anything in it and surrounding it is listed.

I'd second Jamest's suggestion of getting in a specialist period property surveyor and/or timber specialist. The crucial thing as has been said is, is the woodworm active?

a twig's link is well worth reading a couple of times.

You will probably find joining SPAB will be a valuable and not expensive thing to do. They can also advise on finding suitable specialist trades people. I found their information and help most useful when we first bought our 16c house 20+ years ago.

I'd also add, don't be too cruel to the house when carrying out works, if you can, add timber adjacent to and affixed to, the original timbers. Thereby keeping old and interesting materials. Always try to repair rather than replace.

 

[Kearn]

Hi all - New member here

I have been looking around alot of the threads over the past few days and reading alot of the advice, which has helped me alot already, but its still quite overwhelming! I am hoping by posting here I can be signposted to some more specific threads/websites or just offered a general steer for info. So sorry for the VERY long post.

My partner and I are currently in the process of buying a C17 grade 2* farmhouse, which we have fallen in love with. We have had the survey report back (level 3 RICS) and it's flagged up a few concerns, which don't get me wrong we were expecting, but some were rather......scary (in our eyes). We have raised some inital queries via our solicitor for the vendor, but what I would love is to pick your brains on anything else we should potentially raise, concerns, specialists to instruct and I guess sense check if we are letting our hearts rule our heads.

To proivde a little context, the two big issues were:

• Evidence of wood boring insects; evidence of them everywhere, even in the separate annex. Current vendor has no certificate of treatement, and this issue was raised in their survey 6 years ago (which detailed woodworm and death watch beetle). We have said as a first step we want the house and annex fully reviewed and treated by a specialist with an inusrance backed guarentee. Would we be right in asking for further work to understand the full extent of the damage to the building? I have tried to do a little digging on the forum about this area, which has given great advice, but just wonder what we should deem acceptable to proceed with this situation.
• Roof Structure: (taken snippets from report) In poor condition overall, with clear evidence of significant age realted deterioration to a number of structural timber members. Several timbers display pronounced wear, surface loss, splitting, notching and distortion. In addition, there is visible evidence consistent with wood-boring insect attack to some sections of timber, together with deterioration which may be associated with fungal decay and rot, particularly where timbers appear to have been exposed to prolonged moisture ingress. The cumulative effect is that the roof structure now appears to be of mixed condition and uncertain adequacy. In a number of locations, the timbers appear over stressed, poorly formed or no longer performing as originally intended. This raises concern as to the long term adequacy of the structure supporting the roof coverings. Based on the visible condition here, it is possible that substantial structural repairs or partial to full replacement of sections of the roof structure may ultimately prove necessary. Given the poor visible condition of the roof timbers, the evidence of timber deterioration, likelywood-boring insect activity, possible rot and the potential for vermin and protected species to be present, this element requires urgent further investigation. In summary, the roof structure must be regarded as a serious defect. (N.B The roof is welsh slate/ not thatched and we are aware that bats roost threre during the summer (wish they would have eaten the woodworm!! ) Due to the concerns raised around the structural integrity of the roof, the report also flagged concers over the below ceilings. Our surveyor recommended that we request a specialist inspection with a timber & damp specialist (for degradation) or a structural engineer.

There was also evidence of internal dampness, with elevated moisture levels in places (lower levels), the readings obtained suggested possible prescence of damp in wall structure and some of the walls are drylined. In these circumstances, when damp is found, is it reversable/treatable? Given the evidence of woodworm, we naturally want to minimize dampness!

Sorry it's alot, just trying to get my head around all of this, so any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Lucy

I’ll find some time to reply later, as there’s a few very important points to raise…

For now, a question - for that age and deserving of a II* rating, is the building timber framed?