House repairs - your experience and opinion

[Historic Housesitter]

I’m intrigued by this comment - how does a cement render or a gypsum plaster suck moisture out of a wall? Particularly when so many on here have to hack such coverings off to allow their walls to dry out…

Two layers of fireproof pink plasterboard is probably overkill for the worst case 60 mins protection required for most homes which can be achieved by a single layer of 15mm pink plasterboard or two staggered layers of standard plasterboard. 60 minute intumescent paints are also available if you wanted to leave the timber exposed

I'm looking back over my comments and think I should have been clearer, rather than trying to simplify sentences. I have been on this thread all day it seems, so have probably missed bits of sentence out without realising, even after reading again. Typing the thoughts of a brain that works faster than fingers... and a day always has other things to do.

It is my personal experience as the owner of a Victorian home (C1865) that has had the same treatment. The (cracked) render and plaster is rock hard, while the building itself is built from stock Victorian bricks and lime mortar.
My point was more about the inability of the new plaster to move and cope so easily with thermal expansion and hence crack, while the softer brick and lime pull away.

We too had damp issues, hence we got rid of the much of the R&P, but in the meantime if the mortar bed is soaked, it wouldn't be powdery or am I missing something?

Our soaked bit was more cottage cheese if you ask me...

Plasterboard:
My sentiments exactly: Two layers of plasterboard over a big 'H' RSJ is indeed overkill, but, sadly it was also the instruction from our (IMO) over-zealous local building control, doled out to a colleague who was renovating and selling up after following all instructions for their knock through of dining to kitchen last year...

 

[Historic Housesitter]

Apologies, not for the first time today i know but not following. Not much has been said about this bit. This was exposed as part of the chimney checks. The latest concern that stopped play today is the section to the left of this once the entire wall had been uncovered. Something in this bit, posted earlier and think you have already reviewed and commented on!

Added a bit of markup

The bit at the top seems to be the most ‘crumbly’, this seems to be his repeated main concern. Sandy mortar.

The x is the side wall that is not connected to the brickwork, can literally put your hand in the gap between brick and plaster!

2 circled bits are unexpected cracking, they want the SE to see this too.

The wiggly line to the right was the expected crack they were planning to stitch.

View attachment 18320

This is the upstairs wall

I'm going to need to switch off as getting screentime headache, but I'd say if this is the upstairs, the discoloured section of more sandy mortar on the top and right was behinda roofing structure of sorts? Perhaps as others have said it's shoddy mixing during the original build? Is there an extention in part of the roof?

If the wall on the left is above the old/new beam area, perhaps it has pulled away from the main wall as it was no longer supported after 2022.

I'll sign back in tomorrow at some point to see what the upshot of tomorrow's meeting with the SE is.

 

[Notlbishop]

I'm going to need to switch off as getting screentime headache, but I'd say if this is the upstairs, the discoloured section of more sandy mortar on the top and right was behinda roofing structure of sorts? Perhaps as others have said it's shoddy mixing during the original build? Is there an extention in part of the roof?

If the wall on the left is above the old/new beam area, perhaps it has pulled away from the main wall as it was no longer supported after 2022.

I'll sign back in tomorrow at some point to see what the upshot of tomorrow's meeting with the SE is.

Thank you, you have been replying all day and i appreciate your time spent helping me.

To answer your questions

No extension in the roof as far as we know, the chimney disappears into the cavity wall.

I’ve added a crude plan pic below to answer your Q in relation to the beam and where we’re seeing the cracking issues.

Top pic is downstairs, bottom is upstairs

The green line is the beam. The red section is where we’re seeing the cracking and is where most of the pics i’ve taken today are situated.
Initials are just the room name.

 

[stuart45]

Have you got a photo of the back of the house from further back showing the roof as well?

 

[Notlbishop]

So the SE has been round

The house doesn’t need demolishing. I have no idea why the builder said that. SE didn’t even consider it far as i can tell.

Headline is, house is old, it can be fixed, it will prob keep happening eventually.

He can’t give a definitive reason why that crack has appeared there. I specifically asked about the renovation having that effect and said unlikely due to where it is, you would expect the impact to be seen elsewhere.

I asked about the type of bricks and mortar for repairs. He suggested a ‘softer’ mortar than the bricks, but not specifically the lime mix mentioned here. M4 vs M6, obviously i asked a question above my knowledge in reality so i got an answer that matched that which i don’t understand.

On the beam and what it was sat on, he was totally satisfied with that. I asked about the pad stones and won’t i get the same issue as i had before. Prob got my only definitive no back on that. And would meet building regs. Totally satisfied the SE said.

So not sure what to do. Could get another SE in but it’s not like there’s an escalation route here is there? Can’t get a ‘higher’ opinion than a SE no?

Seemed to say the house is old, this is what will happen. He told the builders specifically what to do in each of the rooms.

I don’t know, maybe we patch up, sell at a discount to someone who wants to renovate and just move on, take the hit in the wallet. Probably paying off the mortgage til i die anyway.

Think i’ll head out for some fresh air first.

 

[Michael55]

I haven't even bought an old house yet, but I feel your pain!

 

[Stevers]

When I saw the plans I also concluded that the cracks must be an old house thing rather than anything to do with the beam. The SE is going to be on the cautious side, and as long as he's not wet behind the ears, I'd replace the builders with some blokes that will cheerfully just put it back together, so you'd never know, using NHL mortars without making your life a misery.

How did you find these 'builders'?

 

[stuart45]

There's no need to sell up at a discount. When you hack off the plaster in most old houses you'll find cracks in the masonry.
Look at the positives. You are getting Building regs sign off, and the house has been checked by an SE. The new beam looks like it's only taking the upper floor joists.
It's possible the removed wall was adding a bit of lateral restraint to the back wall, so it might of caused it to move a bit.

 

[Notlbishop]

So moved on a bit again. Builders have talked me into a second opinion from another SE. The big boss man of the firm has turned up and thinks the same so that’s what we’re doing. Bit of limbo for a while but i think i feel better.
All agree the house doesn’t require demolishing and sort of apologised for using the extreme case if the issue was widespread throughout the house. So i’ll sleep a little easier at least.

Will keep this thread updated but like i say, prob go quiet til next SE gets here. They’re just putting the kitchen back to a liveable state

 

[Michael55]

When it comes to cracks or bulges internally after an inner wall removal, as long as it's historic and doesn't cause further issues can one fairly safely ignore it and learn to live with it?

I'm facing similar issues in the buying process and I'm inclined to ignore it thinking it's still standing but there's that nagging voice and a quote from a SE for 995 + vat to have a look at the house!

 

[Notlbishop]

When it comes to cracks or bulges internally after an inner wall removal, as long as it's historic and doesn't cause further issues can one fairly safely ignore it and learn to live with it?

I'm facing similar issues in the buying process and I'm inclined to ignore it thinking it's still standing but there's that nagging voice and a quote from a SE for 995 + vat to have a look at the house!

Honestly, i would get it done. Unless you know it’s historic and won’t cause further issues?. But you’re chatting to someone who’s on the rough end of old building issues and dodgy diy atm so i’d prob err on the side of caution

 

[Flyfisher]

On the beam and what it was sat on, he was totally satisfied with that. I asked about the pad stones and won’t i get the same issue as i had before. Prob got my only definitive no back on that. And would meet building regs. Totally satisfied the SE said.

Well I've certainly learned something from all this - I'd never have guessed that wood would be ok as a 'padstone' for the beam.

Will BC get to see to see it and sign it off, or will it be covered over by the time they revisit the house I wonder?

 

[Flyfisher]

When you hack off the plaster in most old houses you'll find cracks in the masonry.

We took out a wall in our house on which the plaster showed no cracks but the wall underneath had some huge cracks and voids, some of which had old nesting materials, presumably from mice, so the cracks must have been pretty extensive! But it was a thick rubble wall consisting of a lot of chalk blocks and flints so perhaps some of the voids were present from when it was built. I guess we can never be totally sure what lies beneath our pristine walls.

 

[Cubist]

Well I've certainly learned something from all this - I'd never have guessed that wood would be ok as a 'padstone' for the beam.

Will BC get to see to see it and sign it off, or will it be covered over by the time they revisit the house I wonder?

Well I've certainly learned something from all this - I'd never have guessed that wood would be ok as a 'padstone' for the beam.

Will BC get to see to see it and sign it off, or will it be covered over by the time they revisit the house I wonder?

Those wooden blocks were, in my opinion, only used to 'set' the location and height of the beam. Unless the builder was an absolute dolt the beam would have then been held in place with acrow props while brick and mortar was used to form the final seating.

 

[stuart45]

Unless the builder was an absolute dolt

He did think the house needed rebuilding because the brick on edge course on the top of the wall was a bit sandy, so I wouldn't be too sure. However it needed to be signed off by Building Control.

 

[Stevers]

Those wooden blocks were, in my opinion, only used to 'set' the location and height of the beam.

Flitch beams in masonry houses was a new one on me, but given the fundamentally tree like nature of the thing, I can't seen any particular reason why it couldn't sit on more tree, but I can absolutely see why it would need to be smothered in plasterboard!

 

[Notlbishop]

Building surveyor, not another SE is booked for monday. Apparently i am paying for a written report on the solution needed to resolve the issue with the cracks.

Maybe the nightmare will end then, maybe not. Who knows at this point *shrug*

 

[stuart45]

Building surveyors normally refer you to an SE for the remedial work. Have you or next door removed any of the chimney breasts? They have a buttressing effect, and removing them can effect the loading on the party wall.

 

[Notlbishop]

Building surveyors normally refer you to an SE for the remedial work. Have you or next door removed any of the chimney breasts? They have a buttressing effect, and removing them can effect the loading on the party wall.

Nope apparently chimneys all intact. They went up in the loft today for a second check. Can’t see anything wrong with the chimney

 

[Lacan07]

Building surveyors normally refer you to an SE for the remedial work. Have you or next door removed any of the chimney breasts? They have a buttressing effect, and removing them can effect the loading on the party wall.

That's interesting Stuart, I wasn't aware of that.

I've removed one here, although the SE OK'ed it.