Identiying this architrave/skirting/dado profile

[Coles]

Hi,

I am about to send samples off of to get skirting, stair trim and a dado replicated.

But it's not cheap.

So before I do I wondered if anyone had any idea if these were already out there.

The one on the stairs looks like architrave you find around a door.

I have done good searches but struggling to find a match.

Thanks

 

[fernicarry]

They all look a bit more intricate that anything you are likely to find available. The first has an ogee in it with a bead above that and a bevel above that. For the dado try searching for astragal as I believe thats what symmetrical mouldings like that are referred to.

Problem with modern off the shelf replacements is the scale. They might have the same or similar profile features but the proportions are often scaled down and the overall size of the piece is smaller so up against an original it won't work.

Getting them made up does involve a certain amount of labour so the cost is justified. The cutters on the spindle moulder need to be set up or even cut specifically and the piece might have to be passed through multiple times to build up the profile. But you then have the kudos of telling guests/potential buyers that you cared enough to have the woodwork replicated at great expense...

Buy a few spare lengths to get the cost per metre down. If its made from pine/redwood expect there to be some significant defects in the wood anyway that you will want to work around. Tulipwood is a better choice for quality of finish but more expensive again.

I can recommend timbercut4u for plain lengths. The quality of the redwood I got recently from them was actually decent. They also have a bespoke service which I haven't used yet but as I'm failing to find a router cutter for one of the profiles I need I'll be going that route shortly. Apparently its a Grecian Ogee I need not a Roman one. I can find a 100 year old hand plane iron for it but nothing more recent...

 

[Cubist]

Check these guys out. They offer a comprehensive range of patterns and provide the key dimensions needed for comparative purposes.

https://www.wrp-timber-mouldings.co.uk/moulding-profiles

 

[Coles]

They all look a bit more intricate that anything you are likely to find available. The first has an ogee in it with a bead above that and a bevel above that. For the dado try searching for astragal as I believe thats what symmetrical mouldings like that are referred to.

Problem with modern off the shelf replacements is the scale. They might have the same or similar profile features but the proportions are often scaled down and the overall size of the piece is smaller so up against an original it won't work.

Getting them made up does involve a certain amount of labour so the cost is justified. The cutters on the spindle moulder need to be set up or even cut specifically and the piece might have to be passed through multiple times to build up the profile. But you then have the kudos of telling guests/potential buyers that you cared enough to have the woodwork replicated at great expense...

Buy a few spare lengths to get the cost per metre down. If its made from pine/redwood expect there to be some significant defects in the wood anyway that you will want to work around. Tulipwood is a better choice for quality of finish but more expensive again.

I can recommend timbercut4u for plain lengths. The quality of the redwood I got recently from them was actually decent. They also have a bespoke service which I haven't used yet but as I'm failing to find a router cutter for one of the profiles I need I'll be going that route shortly. Apparently its a Grecian Ogee I need not a Roman one. I can find a 100 year old hand plane iron for it but nothing more recent...

Thank you, I hoped there was something out there but knew it would be difficult.

I would rather pay than get something differenrlt.

I'm going to have to try to carefully remove the piece on the stair, which is quite painful considering how long it's been there. But half is damaged.

 

[Coles]

Check these guys out. They offer a comprehensive range of patterns and provide the key dimensions needed for comparative purposes.

https://www.wrp-timber-mouldings.co.uk/moulding-profiles

Thanks, that's really helpful. Perhaps if I email them some pics/sizes they could advise.

 

[fernicarry]

I'm going to have to try to carefully remove the piece on the stair, which is quite painful considering how long it's been there

Thats part of the challenge with getting it replicated. I tried one local timber mill who insisted they needed a physical sample even although I'm certain I know the dimensions of each part of the profile. Timbercut4u claim they can do it from a dimensioned diagram so no need to remove anything. I will shortly find out how well that works out.

Of course if its damaged and you are replacing the whole piece then you have less to lose. What I generally do is use a multitool down the back to search for nails so I know where to prise or even cut through them with the muiltiool. That can be pretty rough on blades though but at least old nails are made of much less hard iron than modern ones. Your worst case scenario is the modern bodger who has used a grab adhesive... That defies all attempts to separate it and you end up taking a chunk of plaster with it.

 

[paulc]

I can recommend timbercut4u for plain lengths. The quality of the redwood I got recently from them was actually decent. They also have a bespoke service which I haven't used yet but as I'm failing to find a router cutter for one of the profiles I need I'll be going that route shortly. Apparently its a Grecian Ogee I need not a Roman one. I can find a 100 year old hand plane iron for it but nothing more recent...

Have been trying to find matching profiles that were used for my house. Skirting isn't too bad, being a fairly plain torus. A local timber merchant stocks something that is an almost perfect match, but their pricing & delivery charges are too high for me to stomach.
Architrave, I have identified as a lamb's tongue, but can't find anything off the shelf. Picture rail is something else that has drawn a blank. Can't even put a name to it. After taking a few measurements, realised that all three profiles can be reproduced using various router bits and multiple passes. Not a perfect match, but you'd need to look very hard to spot the difference.

 

[Stevers]

The first metre will be the most expensive - get extra lengths made and flog them to your neighbours!

 

[Cubist]

Have been trying to find matching profiles that were used for my house.

And there perhaps is another pointer to one of the 'gotchas'. Sometimes you may find that the profile you're looking for is actually a composite/compound of several different mouldings attached to a base. This was/is still a common practice for some of the more substantial mouldings found in some homes. Decades and even centuries of paint also helps to deceive the eye resulting in the assumption its a single moulding.

 

[Coles]

And there perhaps is another pointer to one of the 'gotchas'. Sometimes you may find that the profile you're looking for is actually a composite/compound of several different mouldings attached to a base. This was/is still a common practice for some of the more substantial mouldings found in some homes. Decades and even centuries of paint also helps to deceive the eye resulting in the assumption its a single moulding.

This is exactly the case above my stairs. It looked like a single moulding but at closer inspection it was made of of 3 different parts that were pinned on.

 

[Coles]

They all look a bit more intricate that anything you are likely to find available. The first has an ogee in it with a bead above that and a bevel above that. For the dado try searching for astragal as I believe thats what symmetrical mouldings like that are referred to.

Problem with modern off the shelf replacements is the scale. They might have the same or similar profile features but the proportions are often scaled down and the overall size of the piece is smaller so up against an original it won't work.

Getting them made up does involve a certain amount of labour so the cost is justified. The cutters on the spindle moulder need to be set up or even cut specifically and the piece might have to be passed through multiple times to build up the profile. But you then have the kudos of telling guests/potential buyers that you cared enough to have the woodwork replicated at great expense...

Buy a few spare lengths to get the cost per metre down. If its made from pine/redwood expect there to be some significant defects in the wood anyway that you will want to work around. Tulipwood is a better choice for quality of finish but more expensive again.

I can recommend timbercut4u for plain lengths. The quality of the redwood I got recently from them was actually decent. They also have a bespoke service which I haven't used yet but as I'm failing to find a router cutter for one of the profiles I need I'll be going that route shortly. Apparently its a Grecian Ogee I need not a Roman one. I can find a 100 year old hand plane iron for it but nothing more recent...

A reputable Timber place in Hertforshire recommended these two places. DW wood machinists and TW Parkers.
DW require 25 meters minimum but TW will do any lengths. I think it's like £80 to make the profile. They deliver to me in London but not sure if they are nationwide.

 

[mooner]

These guys are based in Bristol but deliver nationally, here's a link to their stock profile drawings. https://www.robbins.co.uk/drawing-library/

I enquired recently about custom profiles and was told it's £75.00 for each profile cutter that they need to make.

 

[Gothichome]

We have done the same search for our home to replace some trim but cost got prohibitive for the small amount we needed. About $100 Canadian each for the profile knives and I don’t get to keep them. Made do with my router and table saw. Not perfect match but did the job.

 

[Cubist]

Being a frequent visitor to junk shops and antique centres I've often been tempted to acquire one of those sets one sometimes sees of wooden moulding planes. Despite the temptation I've never acquired one just in case the available profiles stimulate a desire to find and acquire a property with a need for just those I then have.

 

[Stevers]

The most useful moulding planes are the ones for beads, I have 7/16", 5/16" and 3/16". They were probably about £5 each, have seen plenty of action and are long paid for.

 

[Cubist]

The most useful moulding planes are the ones for beads, I have 7/16", 5/16" and 3/16". They were probably about £5 each, have seen plenty of action and are long paid for.

My younger brother, theres only 14 months between us, tells a tale of being hauled into the centre aisle of an Aldi - or is it Lidl - and being taking his revenge on his wife by throwing himself on the floor shouting "shiny toys, shiny toys, want, want" and refusing to leave until a chip borescope had been trollied. When he recounted that story in front of my dear First Lady it elicited a knowing look and a finger wagging No aimed at me.

These days I am only allowed near the shiny toys while under close supervision.

 

[Coles]

Today I went in the crawl space under the house and sitting in the corner was a piece of wood which is the same moulding as the stair. Well it's a few mm extra width but considering the stairs were sliced and diced it may have have looked this originally.

Handy to grab a sample of.

 

[Coles]

Pricing has been quite interesting. I contacted a number of places and it seems those who are upfront with a single cost for the cutting tool appear to be much cheaper than those who just add it into the price per meter.

For example 9 meters of dado rail in redwood has been £75 for the tool and then just £55.00 for the 9 meters.

I have been quoted over £300 from others for the same amount who would not give a price for the tool.

That's such a big difference.

 

[Coles]

These guys are based in Bristol but deliver nationally, here's a link to their stock profile drawings. https://www.robbins.co.uk/drawing-library/

I enquired recently about custom profiles and was told it's £75.00 for each profile cutter that they need to make.

Thanks for suggesting these guys. Out of all the places I have looked at this place was by far the cheapest. Sadly quite a hefty delivery fee to London but still came out cheaper than local firms even with the delivery.

Also they were very helpful.

 

[Stevers]

Robbins supply my local DIY store. I can confirm that their timber is excellent quality and less expensive than the knotty rubbish that Wickes sells.