Lead Paint

[Flyfisher]

Modern paint types, formulation and durability is an ever popular topic on here but not usually lead paint, for obvious reasons.

However, given that our house is G2*, I believe I have the option of using lead paint and I'm wondering if this would be an option worth investigating?

I wouldn't want to use it inside but am thinking mainly of the exterior of windows and possibly doors.

Does anyone know how lead paint performs in such applications compared to alternatives or am I wasting my time even considering this?

 

[a twig]

Obviously I've never used it, but if I had the results would have been brilliant...

It would have dried quicker, maintained colour better and proved a lot more durable than the modern stuff

 

[88v8]

I used lead gloss (Magnet) for twenty years until it became unavailable. I still have some tins of primer and undercoat which could probably be revived.
When first we bought the house, I even used it indoors, the kitchen cupboards.... well, we weren't going to eat it... and that paint was still there and in good nick when we sold 28 years later.

Outdoors, subject to normal prep and sanding between coats, the coating had good integrity, never flaked or broke down.
On ironwork - given adequate rust treatment - it lasted forever. But like other oil paints, it did not accommodate movement and on sash boxing and panelled doors for instance it failed in the usual places.
Hence the customary considerations apply of not using dark colours on south or east facings.

At the front of the house, north, downstairs windows were painted in 1981 then refreshed in 2011, but could have been left longer.
At the back - south - greens had cracked at the joints after three years whereas creams had not.

What I did like was the patina, that faded duskiness one can only get from old lead paint. There is of course the consideration that if one were to use lead in some places and not in others, after a few years there would be a noticeable difference in texture.

But on the whole even if I could buy it now, I wouldn't. I like painted wood and I quite like painting, but I hate repainting.
Outdoors I'm hoping Bedec MSP will save me.

Indoors still using oil of course, In terms of application and finish, MSP just isn't in the same league as a decent oil.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks Ivor, perhaps lead paint is not the perfect solution we're all searching for then.

I share your pain regarding dark paint as we have black windows, many on southern-facing walls. The difference in paint performance between north and south facing walls is huge, unfortunately.

Interestingly, I have a 1908 monochrome photo of the house and although the window frames look black the casements and sashes are most definitely some other non-white colour (or I suppose they could actually be a light grey :lol: ) so perhaps I should consider changing the colour scheme to match? A light green seems to have become very fashionable in recent years. But that's an aside and still leaves the formulation issue.

I've used linseed paint on soffits bargeboards and it is lasting extremely well and for this sort of application the drying time is less of an issue than it is with doors and windows. It also 'dulls down' nicely, so perhaps lead paint would have no great advantage here.

As for the dreaded windows (yes, I'm thinking ahead to the coming painting season with some trepidation), it seems that lead paint may not offer significant advantages over Bedec MSP, which is my current 'go to' paint.

I only wish my 'great paint experiment' [1] was older and the results were more conclusive. Ce la vie.


[1] Described within this thread: https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16934

 

[CliffordPope]

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[CliffordPope]

I've always understood that red-lead primer has the unique property of actually bonding with wood (and iron), unlike others which are merely stuck to the surface.
If you've ever tried to get the red stain out of wood painted with it, it's impossible.
I once had a small yacht built in about 1880. All the later paint came off, but the wood was indelibly dyed.

 

[Toby Newell]

That's because red lead was the main orange wood pigment of the time! I am old enough to have used it before it was banned. Only issue was it was bloody heavy! If you mixed it with other pigments you had to mix the colour every few seconds or you would get tiger stripes...

Red lead and flake white (lead carbonate) have poor colour fastness and are far inferior to more light stable modern pigments. Reg lead was excellent as a primer (as is modern aluminium primer) because it was so dense.

I suspect lead carbonate paints have better obliteration and opacity than modern titanium dioxide paints but most of their mechanical properties come from the binders. If you buy a well formulated paint it is going to outlast others, irrespective of pigment type.

 

[Feltwell]

Good to see you back Toby, I hope trade picked up for you before Covid hit at least.

I've still not done those floors Never seems to be quite the right time, and I confess I'm nervous of the staining stage, getting it looking right. I suspect just sanded and varnished would look a bit pale.

 

[Toby Newell]

Thanks old friend. As I said, it's all about marketing! I took four months off to update my website. I was ready to give up if it didn't work. I aimed to make it the best of it's kind in the UK, check it out. Now I have the opposite problem! Over a years worth of work to book in and several enquiries a day, if you know any apprentices I have enough work for a few.

It's sad that it's all about marketing but no one really does what I do so the demand is there.

Cannot remember what floor you have, just sand it very smooth, water wash it and final sand it again, then you can apply a light tint of LF spirit stain in shellac. You can add very light tints in layers, even a small tweak can take the edge off a too pale floor.

You will need to buy a zorino mixed hair mop.

I hope Simon doesn't sanction us for thread hijacking. Feel free to DM or email me (easy to find my website on google) if you need help nearer the time.

T

 

[Feltwell]

Website looks great!

I treated myself to a Bosch GET75-150 Turbo sander to try and make myself feel guilty enough to start sorting out the floors. Hasn't worked so far, through it's only been 3 months. Sander is a bit of a beast in powered rotation turbo mode, a bit too much so usually, might be better when on a floor!

Anyhow, lead paint, sorry FF.....

 

[Toby Newell]

Ahem, good sander to remove lead paint with... with adust extractor obviously. We should start a new thread...

 

[Flyfisher]

Anyhow, lead paint, sorry FF.....

No need to apologise on my account, it's not as if I'm squeaky clean when it comes to thread digressions
Anyway, good to hear from Toby again.