Ledged door repair advice sought

[micaudwell]

I am undertaking a last ditch attempt to save this door for reinstallation in my property. Having removed a considerable amount of black paint (which unsurprisingly concealed numerous defects) the initial tasks are to remove the top tapered addition, which had been added to square it up, and to repair the rather rotten bottom.

My intention is to add sufficient at the bottom to be able to square off the top.

Over the years I have noticed many old plank doors where repairs have been effected by inserting sections into the bottom parts of stiles using what appear to be plain scarf joints leading to a saw tooth appearance face on – I’m guessing a fairly rudimentary carpentry approach, but cannot find any reference to this online.

Does anyone have any experience of this sort of repair to share please? For what it’s worth, the picture doesn’t really do justice to the poor state of the item. I’d say it’s 50:50 whether I go ahead.

 

[Cubist]

You've already invested a lot of work into that door and contemplating even more. Given its simple and far from unusual design and at best manufactured from pitch pine I'm a little puzzled why you're bothering with it, It would be easier for you to find a replacement in a Reclamation Yard?

That aside; do you have the tools and skills needed to replicate new sections of the T&G planks of the door? If you have then you may be able to keep the general appearance of the door BUT on just one side. The method I would propose you use for this door would be;

1. Strike a square line circa 20mm above the top edge of the lowest ledger board across the full width of the door and then cut the ledger board and attached damaged/rotten wood away from the main body of the door.
   1. This approach will make it easier to separate and perhaps save the ledger board whilst avoiding any damage to the door caused by any man-handling.
2. Square off the top edge of the doors as per your original plan.
3. Based on your required height for the new door calculate the amount of new timber that must be added to the remains of the door to achieve that new height.
4. Add at least 100mm to that figure and uses this and the width of the door cut a rectangular section of new timber - ideally of the same depth as the old planks.
   1. This timber becomes a 'splint' that attaches (glued and nailed) to the foot of the remaining planks of the door and forms a very wide ledger to which the replacement sections of tongue and groove boards, matched to the door, are attached to complete the doors rear face.

Hope this helps,

 

[micaudwell]

Believe me, I've looked for a yard replacement. Everything I've found is either too narrow or to short (or both).
I have four options:
1. Repair
2. Remake myself
3. Buy in a new replacement
4. Find a yard replacement
I had determined that a repair would start with taking the bottom off above the ledge to simplify it's disassembly.
My client (we've been married nearly 50 years) favours option 1. Apparently, the aged character of it (and possibly me) is/are deciding factors. I'll see how I get on over the weekend.
Thanks for your observations
Mike

 

[Stevers]

What I used to think of as an 'old man' repair until I had to do this to my garage doors!


The doors are Victorian boards attached to some much more modern looking ledges and braces from about 1946. Twenty or so years ago I'd made an unwise repair in chopping off the bottom 2.5" and putting in the horizontal section thinking it would protect the bottom of the door - spoiler alert - it didn't. As far as I could see it just trapped water there and things were much more dire than before. In one of my outhouses had been parts of an old door of similar pattern board, and if I'd thought about it in time there would have been just about enough material to take the repair down to the bottom again. Not realising this in time, I retained the horizontals, but cut channels in the back of them to let any water out again that got in behind them.


In the photo above the dodgiest wood has been cut out (using my marvelous multi-tool/electric chisel) at a much steeper angle than my late father used for his repairs. I used the (numbered) repair pieces as the pattern/jig for the cuts required to fit each one. All bare wood was treated (soaked) with Barratine Universal Clear and then any end grain was treated with two coats of (CCC) two part epoxy hardener as was any timber deemed to be less than new looking. The second picture shows the repair pieces being trial fitted. The first round of repairs had employed Ronseal Wood Hardener and two part polyester wood filler, but by now I'd learnt my lesson and was using two part epoxy hardener and filler throughout. Other than the actual scarf joins, everything was primed prior to assembly. The scarfs were glued with the epoxy filler and 'skew screwed' with some 1 3/4" x 8 brass screws and the repair pieces secured to the ledges with stainless steel screws. The brass screws were cut off flush with my muli-tool - these did not cut as easily as I expected - possibly for the same reason that brass is used for bearings.


After gluing and fixing, the bottom line of the repair pieces wasn't as straight as it could be, so I had to get the multi-tool again out to straighten everything up, with more end grain sealing and priming. What I don't have is a picture of the finished job, or one of my test piece 'skew screwed' joint, but I will sort that in the morning. The dark teal finish coat this time was Zinsser Allcoat Gloss (Solvent based) - this is a self-priming and self-undercoating paint, and it went on and flowed out beautifully to leave a lovely gloss finish. This repair is now a year old and is holding up well.

The scarf repairs were the last gasp of a bigger project. The real problem with these doors was that the frame had collapsed and the left hand doors had been resting on the wet ground for at least five years. I'd been pondering how to replace the frame and in preparation had managed to source some good quality pine just as the Covid shutdowns started. Last year I had a long overdue 'eureka' moment and realised that I could support (and adjust) these very heavy doors in place on a temporary support armature while I took out the old frame, positioned a raised brick at each end to keep the ends out of the water and fit the new frame. Our neighbour gave me a round of applause when we lifted the new double mortice, tenoned and wedged frame into position and it fitted like a glove - he's a chippy so it meant a lot! There's now a good draught under those doors, and they are properly supported and aligned again. The timber of the frame has been treated, the end grain and joints sealed with two part epoxy wood hardener prior to assembly as have the faces against the NHL lime mortar. Other than a coat of paint in about ten years, I don't expect these doors or the frame to trouble me again.

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm a little puzzled why you're bothering with it, It would be easier for you to find a replacement in a Reclamation Yard?

But the thing is one gets attached to anything you’ve had around for a long time, even if it becomes a little worn and annoying at times. Sometimes applies to husbands too.

 

[Cubist]

But the thing is one gets attached to anything you’ve had around for a long time, even if it becomes a little worn and annoying at times. Sometimes applies to husbands too.

I can understand that but... no way I would ever even think of the First Lady in that context... but cannot say there would be reciprocated.