Painted in shutters confusion

[FinnHayd43]

Hello!

I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but this is my first post. I've released 2 sets of painted in shutters in my tenement flat with relative ease, but this set of shutters is confusing me quite a bit, and I wondered if anyone had encountered something like this.


Firstly, I was told pretty confidently by a joiner that these aren't shutters (he just looked at them and didn't inspect them closely or anything), which seemed wrong to me, so I cut down one of the sides and had a little peek behind. I can see that these are definitely shutter panels (I can see a latch on the panel), but whether or not they're actually working shutters is a bit of a mystery to me because of the panelling around them. I can't really see how they would be able to swing out properly.

Has anyone seen shutters like this before? I don't want to really try and rip them out if I'm going to end up with a huge mess and no actual working shutters.

Thanks

 

[Stevers]

Period houses often have a heirarchy of decoration/function, and for example we only have shutters on the windows of the two front reception rooms with plastered splays everywhere else. Given the overall 'look' of those I would tend to agree with the joiner. The clincher for me though is the absence of visible hinges that would mount the framed and panelled shutter to the window frame. Did the shutters you managed to free have visible hinges there?

 

[Cubist]

On balance I think that @Stevers is correct but - have you measured the width of the (maybe) shutters and checked if they would together cover the window? If they would not, then you have your answer. If they could, then there may be a feint chance that the beading in the corners between the shutters and the window-frame are hiding the hinges but, on the basis of aesthetic appearance and symmetry, I would be concerned that their top edges would not clear the ceiling paneling - trying to slide a thin card between the ceiling panel and the tops of the shutters might confirm that one way or the other.

 

[FinnHayd43]

Period houses often have a heirarchy of decoration/function, and for example we only have shutters on the windows of the two front reception rooms with plastered splays everywhere else. Given the overall 'look' of those I would tend to agree with the joiner. The clincher for me though is the absence of visible hinges that would mount the framed and panelled shutter to the window frame. Did the shutters you managed to free have visible hinges there?

Thanks for the reply, yes the other shutters I freed had more clearly visible hinges that weren't covered in any way and didn't have any of the additional framing/panelling that these have

 

[FinnHayd43]

On balance I think that @Stevers is correct but - have you measured the width of the (maybe) shutters and checked if they would together cover the window? If they would not, then you have your answer. If they could, then there may be a feint chance that the beading in the corners between the shutters and the window-frame are hiding the hinges but, on the basis of aesthetic appearance and symmetry, I would be concerned that their top edges would not clear the ceiling paneling - trying to slide a thin card between the ceiling panel and the tops of the shutters might confirm that one way or the other.

The width of the 2 shutter panels combined wouldn't cover the full window length, but that was also the case with the other shutters I freed (both sets required me to buy additional panels to cover the full width of the window), so I couldn't rule them out on that basis. In fact, the width of the panels combined is basically exactly 2/3rds the width of the window, which has me convinced that a 3rd panel would have been there originally.

I think the card trick sounds like a great idea, I'll try that and report back. I'm also investing in an endoscope so I can check out the area behind the panels, I really hope they're proper shutters and I'll be able to get them working again!

 

[fernicarry]

Those are identical to the panels on the front windows here which so far as I can tell aren't moveable shutters. I've had them in various states of disassembly and found no evidence that they have ever been anything other than fixed in place. The wood matches the other joinery so likely original.

The vertical beads between your panels and the window case don't look original. They spoil the proportions of the stiles, have an odd profile and look like they could be modern knotty pine. They might conceal something interesting but I'd hazard they were pulled out the back of the van to cover up a gap that's opened up over time. One of the windows here had a modern quadrant bead fixed in the same position to cover such a gap. Since removed and the gap properly filled.

 

[FinnHayd43]

The vertical beads between your panels and the window case don't look original. They spoil the proportions of the stiles, have an odd profile and look like they could be modern knotty pine. They might conceal something interesting but I'd hazard they were pulled out the back of the van to cover up a gap that's opened up over time. One of the windows here had a modern quadrant bead fixed in the same position to cover such a gap. Since removed and the gap properly filled.

Thanks for the reply, I think I might have a peek behind the bead on one side to see if I can see a hinge or any more clues. I'm just a little worried about doing real damage!

 

[fernicarry]

A hacking knife is good for prising things apart with minimal damage.

 

[Cubist]

Any chance that the panels on the ceiling of that window frame are actually the old third inner leaves of the shutters?

 

[LadyArowana]

Thanks for the reply, I think I might have a peek behind the bead on one side to see if I can see a hinge or any more clues. I'm just a little worried about doing real damage!

The latch you mentioned in the original query, is that visible inside where you managed to open up a little bit? I think curiosity would get the better of me and I would be very tempted to proceed carefully and aim to see what, if anything, was hiding.

Lots of info on shutters here https://georgiangroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/GGM_Brooking_04_Window_shutters.pdf

 

[claraclattermole]

Not posting with anything useful but we have exactly to same for quite a few of our windows so I am interested to see what you find. I haven't been brave enough to pull them apart enough yet.