Sash Refurbishment

[Victorianhome]

Hi everyone, I know that there are a few posts on this & some really helpful 'how-to's which I'll be referring to.

But quick question on renewing window putty...
We have victorian single pane wobbly glass in a large bay, and have quotes to get the windows refurbished properly, but given the hundreds of other jobs we need to do, we don't quite have the funds for a professional yet. However we are now a dab-hand at paint stripping and wood filling so I think we could strip the flaky paint and do a tidy up of the timber frames ourselves. However I'd be very nervous about messing with the glass, even though it needs doing. Is there anything we can do with glass still in frames to give a nice seal round the edges to put us on a couple of years?

They are very drafty & the longer I leave the modern paint is just cracking more. Some of our sills have started rotting so trying to do damage limitation We also have a cracked pane of wobbly glass, do you know if a normal glazer would be able to replace or is sourcing the same type of glass a bit more specialist?

Thinking about it, do you think a normal glazer just do the putty work & replace the existing glass for me to then get the paintbrush out?

Thanks

 

[Zebra]

I would DIY it all if I were you. Puttying in some single glazed panes is not hard, and a DIYer can often give a job extra time and attention to detail. I would just have a go at digging the old putty out. Start with the pane that's already broken, in case you break it! You can safely board over that pane temporarily while you get a new one - a piece of ply on the outside, some battens or more ply on the inside, and screw from the inside to tension them together. It may not be pretty but will keep the house safe while you figure out the next step. Where to get replacement historic glass I don't know, but I'm sure Google must know...

 

[Feltwell]

A while back I did a long post on my bay window refurbishment which went down well, I'm in the midst of some sash refurbishment now and was going to do "how to" post all about it - not to say that I'm the expert at sash refurbishment, that's the point, to show my amateur efforts and hopefully inspire others to have a go when I've finished it. It's not difficult work. I was going to wait until I've finished it all but speak to me nicely and I'll do a "stage one" sooner if it would be helpful.

Putty - starting with the already broken pane is a great idea, get yourself a hacking knife - you strike the back of the blade with a hammer as you work across the putty line, so the blows are parallel to the glass face, chipping the old hard putty out.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOOTPRIN...314149&hash=item3d984c0629:g:lckAAOSwh2xYBmyl

I confess I've got a putty lamp to soften the old stuff, but I was lucky and got one cheap secondhand and I've got a lot of windows to do.

You can just replace the putty with linseed putty, but water based paint doesn't like it. I confess I now use Dry Seal MP, a glazing sealant in a tube - should be more durable, it stays soft so is easy to cut out in the future, and water based paint is fine with it. Get yourself a Palu tooling block if you decide to use this, makes smoothing it much easier.

It depends how bad the current putty is - you could patch it up in-situ - with more linseed putty or the Dry Seal is sticky stuff and won't fall out in a hurry. It is *best* to reglaze though.

Glass - your local glaziers will likely only be able to supply modern float glass. You can get "wobbly" glass, Tatra is the usual firm mentioned. My problem is when I need glass I tend to need it straight away, and it's advisable to take sashes into the glaziers and ask them to cut the glass to suit - rebates are often narrow and sashes are often a bit out of square - so I end up having to accept float glass. I save as much of the old as I possibly can though.

 

[Victorianhome]

Thanks so much for your replies.

We are really new to DIY and whilst we've been good at prep work, we've generally called in the experts for the finishing. Though we seem to have enough tools to kit out a building company.

I think the handling of glass makes me rather nervous though. On the bay the only one that opens is the big central window with the sides being fixed in. Making the broken one a test case is a good idea. I'd post a pic but not sure how I do that, perhaps you'd tell me the putty is actually fine and all they need is a paint

 

[Feltwell]

Easiest way is to use a photo hosting service like imgbb.com - upload your photos to there - then post the

 

[Zebra]

To post a photo, click on the "attachments" tab below where you're writing the message, then browse to find your photo. Has to be really small though, like under 100KB, so you will have to reduce it in your computer or phone first.

 

[Victorianhome]

Thanks everyone. And yes Feltwell a 'Stage one' post would be very useful!

Particularly if it explains in simple terms how exactly to get a pane of glass out of the window.. though here are some photos, I'm hoping you'll say the putty is actually fine!

However I'm not sure what to do about the big gap I've only just noticed (we have ugly secondary glazing which I would like to take off, but not until I've sorted the drafts I think).

https://ibb.co/vchqsCp
https://ibb.co/0tBxXMw
https://ibb.co/ckCs52Y
https://ibb.co/H2T9pX1

One thing I love about the house is that I'll never get bored :lol:

Thanks all.

 

[CliffordPope]

Part of the reason professional handling and cutting of new glass looks so easy is because they are professionals, but partly because glass ages and becomes very brittle.

 

[Feltwell]

though here are some photos, I'm hoping you'll say the putty is actually fine!

Your bay is not in bad condition at all. Now this is an example of a bay in bad condition...…mine! Well it was in bad condition, it's fine now.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16118&p=219935&hilit=bay#p219935

Putty - hard to tell from just pictures but it doesn't look too bad to me, I have far worse here! If you're really nervous about taking it out then go round it with a flat blade screwdriver and prod the putty towards the glass - any bits that are obviously loose, take them out. You can then patch repair with new putty. You need a seal between the putty and the glass, the paint does this (you should paint 2-3mm onto the glass), but the putty needs to be in contact with the glass.

Those pictures to me look like a window in need of a redecorate, not a window in need of full renovation. Caveat here is until you strip the paint off you won't know for sure, but if it was majorly rotten then you'd be looking at pictures like the ones of my bay, it would be obvious.

Your "big gap" - you mean under the bottom sash? That's only at the front, it may seal better further back, but changing the staff bead on the inside for one with a built in seal would fix any draft from there and it's a straightforward DIY job.+

I will do a proper "how to" post when I get a chance! Sash windows are really not scary things to repair, you could make a significant improvement to yours and learn a lot in the process I reckon. Whereabouts are you? If times were different and Shropshire was reachable I'd say come and see me when I strip the next one down!

 

[Feltwell]

This thread will give you some useful info as well:-

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16664&p=226380&hilit=parting#p226380

 

[Victorianhome]

Thanks Feltwell you've made me feel so much better! You're were indeed worst than our bay!

Our windows at the back are much worse though - rotting Sills & glass nearly falling out on one, but they aren't as visible to the neighbours so I thought I'd start with the bay. It would be nice to not be the scruffy house on the street any more :lol:

I've been stripping all my paintwork on wood using a heat gun so far (the liquid stripper is so messy!), there is an attachment for getting close to glass but I don't think I'd go that close. I think it will pick off once I get started.

I didn't think about patching up with putty thank you, I'm going to strip back with a view to painting & maybe a bit of putty filling, but I won't plan to take the glass out (fingers crossed!).

I've been looking at painting with the Bedec MSP and it says no need for primer etc but I assume it will need 2 coats. Off to read the tips on changing the staff bead on the inside for one with a built in seal now!

I'm up in Yorkshire but thanks so much for your offer.

 

[Feltwell]

No bother! Don't forget that heat guns soften putty as well as strip paint, keep it off the putty unless you're taking it out. A small bit of metal plate to hold in one hand as a heat shield works well with heat guns. A heat gun is the way to go, in my opinion, chemicals are messy and can leave residues that react with new paint.

MSP - depends on the colour, might need 3 coats. A thinned down first cost so it penetrates the wood is a good idea anyway.

The staff bead is the trim all round the inside edge of the frame, the bit that stops the bottom sash falling into your room! Reddiseals do a good range, work out if they've got one to match what you already have. I'd buy the primed version, good time saver. Just go for the timber version - avoid the wood/plastic composite, it's awful.

https://www.reddiseals.com/product-category/sash-window/beading/

Into the carrier on that bead you put a draft seal - either weatherpile brush strip, or for staff bead I prefer this stuff, it looks better for longer and is easier to paint round

https://www.reddiseals.com/product/schlegel-ql48650/

I use weatherpile on the parting beads though. There's no right answer, this is just what I've found works best.

Mightons is another popular supplier.

If you do put in fresh putty, you'll need to go over it with an oil based primer before using MSP - putty is chalk and linseed oil, the water based MSP doesn't like it. Old dry putty is fine. Or do what I do now and use a glazing sealant, such as Dry Seal MP - MSP can be painted straight over that after only 2 hours.