Sash renovation whoopsie - no sash pockets

[jonathansmith134]

Hey all,

New to the forum - nice to meet you!

Looking for some advice here.

Paid for a contractor to undertake a full cill replacement across all my old duel hung sash and case windows. All are operating well, and the replacement of the old rotten wood seems to have been done to a super high standard. One problem, they haven't installed sash pockets. And, they didn't replace the original cords, so I have no idea how much life is left in them.

I raised with them, and they have offered to 'install' them.

1. Is is possible to cut in sash pockets to any degree of craftsmanship at this point, or did it need done before install?
2. Is it possible to replace these cords with new ones BEFORE they break without having to cut these pockets? I'd feel happier if I had a full set of new cords, which isn't the case here.
3. I'm presuming with no pockets and a broken cord, it would involve cutting into these box sections at a later date?

Picture is of them unpainted.

Advice welcome on how to proceed!

Thanks all

 

[sarahtalkstimber]

Hey, sounds like the contractor did a solid job overall, but yeah—leaving out the sash pockets and not replacing the cords is a bit of a miss.

To your questions:

Can they cut sash pockets in now?
Yep, it can still be done. It’s definitely easier to do it before everything goes in, but a decent joiner should be able to cut them in cleanly afterwards. Not ideal, but totally doable if they know what they’re doing.

Can you replace cords without the pockets?
Technically, yes—but it’s a faff. Without pockets, you’d need to start pulling bits of the trim or box frame off to get to the weights, which can be messy and more hassle than it’s worth.

If a cord breaks later—what happens?
Exactly what you guessed. No pockets means cutting into the box to fix it, which isn’t great once everything’s painted and finished.


Since they’ve offered to add the pockets now, I’d definitely get them to do it. And while they’re at it, I’d ask them to swap the cords too. Makes it easier if anything needs fixing in the future.

 

[fernicarry]

You can certainly cut an opening after the fact. But pocket doors have a pointed nose at the top and a rabbet joint at the bottom so to cut the profile correctly you need to get at both sides of the pulley stile which won't be possible with it in situ. Its usually done such that the piece that is broken out of the pulley stile gets used as the door and of course sits perfectly in the gap without any fixings being required. Bit of a badge of honour I suppose with joiners to do it "right". I've only done it once and it was a right pita so I can understand "forgetting" hoping the customer won't notice. You can cut a plain opening and add the point for the nose and the rebate for the rabbet to the stile but the removed piece will now be too small so you'll need to make a new door from new stock which may or may not sit neatly in the gap (and the grain won't match ). Shame as it otherwise looks like a tidy job. How far up did they replace the pulley stile?

So far as the cords, if they were already polyester cored cords then they'll outlast the planet, but if they are the jute cored ones then they could give up any time. I did one recently that turned out to be hanging on by a thread, I think the meeces had been at it. Your sash looks like its been replaced at some point so maybe its been re-corded with something modern? You have a simplex arrangement so swing it out and take a look at the edge of the sash where the cord is nailed on.

Btw, don't paint the bottom inner side of the pulley stile. Only paint the bits that you can see when the sashes are in their closed position. I like to paint the parting and staff beads before fitting so that there is no risk of paint on the brushes. Yours look like they may already be pinned in place so masking tape will be the order of the day.

That'a a Scottish window, Glasgow?

 

[jonathansmith134]

Thanks both, super helpful.

It turns out their offer to retrofit these is actually cutting into the button of the outside pulley stile, which feels like a terrible solution to me - it'll mean a block of wood sitting over an opening. Not how it should be done. Really feeling let down here that they didn't replace the cords, removed the pockets, and then kept quiet about it all. At this point I think the best approach is to leave them and hope for the best.

In terms of what they replaced, the replacement inner pully stile is about finished about half way up the window.

Yeah, all polyester cords thankfully - although I think many of these were done awhile back and people have been a little careless with their painting until date. Would have been greater piece of mind having them swapped.

Yeah, the painting is taking an age due to them being fitted before any priming or undercoating - another lesson learned here! Thanks for the tip re: masking up the brushes.

You are spot on, it's a Scottish window. It's Edinburgh though, as opposed to Glasgow - city centre flat!

Thanks so much all.

 

[fernicarry]

cutting into the button of the outside pulley stile

I agree, that's a terrible way to do it. I can't see how that would be weather proof and not really what you want to see every time you look out the window. If you did want to fix it now it would mean pulling off the parting and staff beads so that you could cut out the pocket door. Fixing it later if a cord breaks would be the same deal. So unless you really want to get clean new cords in there might as well just leave it.

 

[Stevers]

When I fitted an old sash window to my man cave (it had been rescued from inside another shed) there were many things missing including both hatches. I just made new hatches to fit the existing openings. These had the step at the base and angle at the top, but that's not the only way these come. Ideally the hatch is cut out from both sides from the box and will just fit, but with the multi-tool it would be possible to cut a suitable opening for a hatch to be made to fit from new wood. Whilst the parting bead and staff beads would need to be taken off, this could be done at any time, so why not wait until a sash cord breaks and needs replacing - after all that might never be your problem!
Have to say that my cheap (Aldi) Workzone multi-tool has completed so many jobs that I simply can't think of any other way to do so neatly and well.