Should we use hard varnish (Bona Traffic HD) or easily maintained oil (Osmo polyx) on pine floor?

[phario]

We've finished sanding in one of the rooms of our Victorian house. The floor is pine, probably from around the late 1800s or early 1900s. I'm struggling to decide between using Osmo Polyx Raw or a hard varnish.

Main Osmo pro:

• Pine is soft. So it is likely one will have to do spot repairs in the future. You can do this with Osmo.

Polyurethane/Bono pro:

• Pine is soft. Therefore you should get a hard surface coating that will last. In a decade, you can then groan about the maintenance issue.

This is for a bedroom so very moderate foot traffic. There will be a rug. We do not walk with shoes in the house. However, whatever choice is chosen might have consequence on what we do with adjacent rooms and hallway (where there is more foot traffic). I'm leaning towards Osmo since I think with pine, you might as well go with the least permanent option and decide later in the future if it was a mistake.

Thoughts?

 

[noj]

We've finished sanding in one of the rooms of our Victorian house. The floor is pine, probably from around the late 1800s or early 1900s. I'm struggling to decide between using Osmo Polyx Raw or a hard varnish.

Main Osmo pro:

• Pine is soft. So it is likely one will have to do spot repairs in the future. You can do this with Osmo.

Polyurethane/Bono pro:

• Pine is soft. Therefore you should get a hard surface coating that will last. In a decade, you can then groan about the maintenance issue.

This is for a bedroom so very moderate foot traffic. There will be a rug. We do not walk with shoes in the house. However, whatever choice is chosen might have consequence on what we do with adjacent rooms and hallway (where there is more foot traffic). I'm leaning towards Osmo since I think with pine, you might as well go with the least permanent option and decide later in the future if it was a mistake.

Thoughts?

Personally I'd never use a hard coating that would require entire floor re-finishing for just one small area of wear, so I'd go Osmo or Liberon.

I know the 'raw' Osmo has additional white pigment in it and so would want to do a small test area with that and with the clear before covering the entire floor.

 

[LadyArowana]

I'm a big fan of Osmo. We have it on engineered oak. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a roof leak while we were out and there was some staining. A bit of sanding and some Osmo on a cloth and it was all made gone. Of course it could be that if we had had a polyurethane one it wouldn't have stained at all, but I was worried about it wearing in other ways and not being able to spot refinish.

 

[Zebra]

My sister has a hard finish on her parquet. She says never again. If you drop a coffee cup, for example, it damages the surface in a way that can't be easily repaired.
I have osmo polyx on bare boards and never looked back.

 

[phario]

Personally I'd never use a hard coating that would require entire floor re-finishing for just one small area of wear, so I'd go Osmo or Liberon.

I know the 'raw' Osmo has additional white pigment in it and so would want to do a small test area with that and with the clear before covering the entire floor.

Thanks for the warning. We'll definitely try on a patch.

I'm a big fan of Osmo. We have it on engineered oak. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a roof leak while we were out and there was some staining. A bit of sanding and some Osmo on a cloth and it was all made gone. Of course it could be that if we had had a polyurethane one it wouldn't have stained at all, but I was worried about it wearing in other ways and not being able to spot refinish.

One thing I wondered about was that Osmo is more useful on hardwoods where the surface is much stronger, where as with pine you do need a hard coating. However, your point, as was @Zebra below is that any damage is such a huge pain to fix.

My sister has a hard finish on her parquet. She says never again. If you drop a coffee cup, for example, it damages the surface in a way that can't be easily repaired.
I have osmo polyx on bare boards and never looked back.

Thanks. It seems to be the consensus that hard coatings are a PITA to fix, and I should go with Osmo.

 

[malcolm]

My parquet floor sanding guy keeps insisting that polyurethane is the bees knees. My thought was also maintenance with a further sand needed to re-finish a polyurethane floor compared to an oily rag for the Osmo finish. Good to hear the same thoughts on here.

 

[Lacan07]

When I eventually get round to doing my floors I had already made the decision to use a wax that can be easily spot fixed rather than a hard varnish. Its also the breathable option.

 

[Toby Newell]

We've finished sanding in one of the rooms of our Victorian house. The floor is pine, probably from around the late 1800s or early 1900s. I'm struggling to decide between using Osmo Polyx Raw or a hard varnish.

Main Osmo pro:

• Pine is soft. So it is likely one will have to do spot repairs in the future. You can do this with Osmo.

Polyurethane/Bono pro:

• Pine is soft. Therefore you should get a hard surface coating that will last. In a decade, you can then groan about the maintenance issue.

This is for a bedroom so very moderate foot traffic. There will be a rug. We do not walk with shoes in the house. However, whatever choice is chosen might have consequence on what we do with adjacent rooms and hallway (where there is more foot traffic). I'm leaning towards Osmo since I think with pine, you might as well go with the least permanent option and decide later in the future if it was a mistake.

Thoughts?

not easy to patch repair Osmo, colour of patch will be lighter.

osmo is most horrible environmentally irresponsible finish on the planet.

osmo goes yelkow over time your floors will look orange.

traffic will wear better.

apply their craft oil seal or shellac before to get solvent warm look.

you are believing the Osmo marketing bs, worst company in the industry, lies and deception.

fyi, i have finished c. 500 to 1000 floors, around 3 in osmo, rest mostly water based lacquer and shellac & wax.

i have article explaining on here and expanded on my website.

advantages of oil are 1. relatively easy to apply, 2. low build (film thickness)

disadvantages are too long to mention.

you can patch repair and blend in as the plastic film is much thinner (yes, Osmo is alkyd forming drying varnish producing plastic film, very simular o traditional yacht varnish except substituting polyurethane for other siccatives and having thinber film thickness and worse water resistance / durability)

BUT. Osmo oxidises and goes yellow orange therefore sanding scratch / bruise damage will leave lighter patch.

Therefore you will need to tape up area, scrape / sand damaged board / boards / strips / blocks, differential stain will v light yellow orange tint (v v hard to restain olied wood, try lightfast spirit stains diluted) then go over with fresh oil.

Yes Traffic will be harder to scrape / sand, yes you might still need to differential stain but colour difference will be much less.

Osmo is apalling company, I forced them to change their SDS sheets which were wrong. They barred me from their FB page.

most modern, un green rubbish finish out there.

marvel of lies and deception, middle classes not interested in investigating, like washing youghurt pots that go to landfill or sent to Mexico to be burnt by crimally connected companies (was China, then Malaysia - google on you tube).

Osmo is greenwashing scam.

Has image of a green tree, lol contains no tree pruducts, not green. And lots of photos of kids, even photos of kids applying finish in brochure, breathing 50% kerosene with no respirator. mmmm.

Is in metal tin, ahhh, because 50% parafin would eat plastic and air would harden finish.

No mention of 'Main ingredient Crude oil!' also contains 'Endagered species!'

 

[Toby Newell]

Polyox hardwax oil.

Modern "tall oil" varnish or "wiping varnish".

Plastic (alkyd) film forming.

Very low durability, very low water resistance.

Oxidises and yellows over time.

Easy to apply, low build.

50% fossil fuels (dearomatised naptha - white spirit)

mostly soybean oil (worse than palm oil)

'hardwax' part? from Candelilla produced in Mexico refined using Sulfuric acid (environmentally poor production)

Candelilla is CITIES class 2 'Endangered'.

You don't see that in their marketing BS do you?

FYI 'Safe for children' is like saying 'Car contains brakes' ALL interior wood finishes are required to be non toxic to children.

So. If you like using a finish that has 20x less durability, requires constant maintenance, is made from soybean oil, 50% crude oil and contains waxes extracted using environmentally poor practices from a corrupt country with very lax environmetal standards from an endangered plant.

It's the one for you!

I restore / finish floors for a living.

I prefer not to. In facr Osmo and similar finishes are so awful I rarely refinish them unless A. requires no staining (stain doesnt take, even fresh pignented oil) and B. Fresh oil or woidsoap has not been applied for at least 6 and preferably 12 months (Osmo take a year or two to fully cure and is never really 100% dry)

FYI Traffic HD is less than 3% VOCs made from maize starch and vegetable oils.

Unreacted hardener contains isocyanate but is 100% consumed in cured film.

Want a traditional finish? Use Linseed oil, wait 36hrs between coats and expect possible mildew.

You can use Tung oil, faster drying, stronger (not traditional)

Or do what I do and use Shellac (Mylands shellac barrier seal for floors - other brands are available...) 3 to 7 coats, then 2 coats of beeswax and canauba (Mylands Traditional or Harrells - from W.S. Jenkins)

Floors were left bare, effectively lime washed during yearly spring cleaning when lye wash washed lime and milk paint onto the floor.

Oiled from c. 1700s occasionally and waxed to maintain.

Shellacked and waxed or shellac resin varnished (Copal, Amber, Crystal) from mid 1700s more often 1800s.

Occasionally painted from mid 1800s.

Around same time asphaltum (btuminous stain) byproduct of smokeless coal (coke) stained whole floor or 1 to 3 feet perimeter with unfitted loose carpet in middle.

FYI FYI...

Finished ca. 500 to 1000 floors all over the country and abroad, inc. top hotels, restaurants, museums, shops, Post Office Tower, Hermitage Museum, Liberty, top Hotel in Wales etc.

Recoated water based lacquers on about 4 / 500 -1000 floors in 20 years.

Early adopter, been using since it was just Bona and Just Pacific and Pacific Strong.

 

[a twig]

Started to reply to this thread, then thought "Better off waiting for Mr Newell to arrive" and I wasn't wrong

 

[Toby Newell]

hahaha!

I thought, this must be a wind up!

Actually, its a lot thinner and potentially easier to sand, but gums up paper.

Problem is still colour differential.

Ok if its oak, out of direct sun and you refinish in first few months, otherwise pretty much same time and effort as lacquer.

Just the most environmentally damaging product in the industry and second lowest durability to shellac and wax.

At least shellac and wax are 100% reversible!

Would never use myself. 24hrs to recoat, 16hrs to dry, have to wear respirator, fire risk, lol.

Low skilled operatives love it, cheap guys can slosh on and buff off.

Basically super thin low quality 1970s PU varnish marketed by evil genious'

No idea why they dont boast it contains hardwax from endangered plant species! Rare = expensive right!

Their marketing suggests Bona is plastic, true, so is theirs! Except Bona contains 1600% less VOCs and 0% endangered species!

Osmo dont make anything anyway, its all produced overseas, their adhesive is low quality too. Im on first name terms with Alec Stacey (Bona UK technical manager one of most knowledgeable ppl on water based finishes) and had chats with Scott Drayton (owner MD Morrells largest Wood Finishing producer UK) and technical manager at Wakol (Lecol, Loba) I have tried for years to get technical info from Osmo but no dice, learnt more from own research and other technical managers, its a joke company in the industry. Only fools use it in commercisl applications, its a niche, greenwashed misold product for people who are either tricked into thinking its either traditional, environmentally friendly, both. I doubt many peoole would use it if they knew the trurh.

Mind you, when your eyes are watering and your throat is sore and it smells like old oil paint what did you think the solvent was?

Baby unicirn tears?

 

[Lacan07]

hahaha!

I thought, this must be a wind up!

Actually, its a lot thinner and potentially easier to sand, but gums up paper.

Problem is still colour differential.

Ok if its oak, out of direct sun and you refinish in first few months, otherwise pretty much same time and effort as lacquer.

Just the most environmentally damaging product in the industry and second lowest durability to shellac and wax.

At least shellac and wax are 100% reversible!

Would never use myself. 24hrs to recoat, 16hrs to dry, have to wear respirator, fire risk, lol.

Low skilled operatives love it, cheap guys can slosh on and buff off.

Basically super thin low quality 1970s PU varnish marketed by evil genious'

No idea why they dont boast it contains hardwax from endangered plant species! Rare = expensive right!

Their marketing suggests Bona is plastic, true, so is theirs! Except Bona contains 1600% less VOCs and 0% endangered species!

Osmo dont make anything anyway, its all produced overseas, their adhesive is low quality too. Im on first name terms with Alec Stacey (Bona UK technical manager one of most knowledgeable ppl on water based finishes) and had chats with Scott Drayton (owner MD Morrells largest Wood Finishing producer UK) and technical manager at Wakol (Lecol, Loba) I have tried for years to get technical info from Osmo but no dice, learnt more from own research and other technical managers, its a joke company in the industry. Only fools use it in commercisl applications, its a niche, greenwashed misold product for people who are either tricked into thinking its either traditional, environmentally friendly, both. I doubt many peoole would use it if they knew the trurh.

Mind you, when your eyes are watering and your throat is sore and it smells like old oil paint what did you think the solvent was?

Baby unicirn tears?

Toby, I was looking at Bona Hardwax Oil for my floors, have you any experience of this? I don't want to influence the colour of the wood really, just looking for a natural finish. Bona recommended it to me.

I'll take a look at your recipe:

Or do what I do and use Shellac (Mylands shellac barrier seal for floors - other brands are available...) 3 to 7 coats, then 2 coats of beeswax and canauba (Mylands Traditional or Harrells - from W.S. Jenkins)

 

[Gothichome]

Over here the product of choice for a lasting non plastic floor finish is Rubio mono coat. From my understanding is is a modified linseed oil product. wears hard and is easily spot repaired with a re application. i do not know if it is available in the UK but I suspect with a little digging it is.

Technology

Learn about the unique technology that sets Rubio Monocoat products apart from any other wood finishing system.

www.rubiomonocoatusa.com

Ron

 

[Toby Newell]

Toby, I was looking at Bona Hardwax Oil for my floors, have you any experience of this? I don't want to influence the colour of the wood really, just looking for a natural finish. Bona recommended it to me.

I'll take a look at your recipe:

Or do what I do and use Shellac (Mylands shellac barrier seal for floors - other brands are available...) 3 to 7 coats, then 2 coats of beeswax and canauba (Mylands Traditional or Harrells - from W.S. Jenkins)

did you speak to Alec? (Bona technical manager for West and Southern Europe) he knows his onions.

Sadly any oil finish will darken and warm the wood, the two pack finishes like Monocoat and Craft oil don't go so yellow over time. Bona hardwax oil is basically very similar to the Osmo and Woca oils et al.

The least yellowing is something like Bona naturale or Loba Invisible. You can cheat by applying a prestain with a slight white pigment. Issue is application can be tricky, wear is very obvious and pigment slightly clouds the grain. I would'nt do it on oak but on super orange patinated pine the effect can be good and any 'desaturation' of the vivid, 'busy' pattern of growth rings and knots can be welcome. Loba do a white pigment you add yourself, Bona add it to their primers (they do white and amber)

recipe? lol, it's just shellac and wax, read my articles on here or on my website. Shellac or 'French Polish' ( also verb - act of applying shellac to a high sheen finish) was used since the late 1700's, although it was a main consituent of spirit varnishes, along with alcohol soluble resins like sandarac and copal used since the early 1700's but was expensive and mostly used as a sealer for paintings and for coating musical instruments. Before the 1800's either cheaper oil or modified oil varnishes (with naphtha dissolving resins) was normally used, along with wax which was often used to replenish the surface as on its own it absorbed moisture and went cloudy. I suspect uber influencer rich nutjob Louis Quatorze had some stuff shellacked either with pure shellac or shellac resin varnish as it gave a higher, quicker build and gloss, at least towards the end of his ridiculous interiors project.

Shellac was very common for floors from the early 1800's up until the 1930's and for interior woodwork until the 1950's when NC lacquer started to take over. NC and modified catalysed NC and naphtha based PU were used for floors from 1950's until around 1995 when water based acrylic, then acrylic -pu copolymers, then 100% pu, then iso-cured pu was introduced.

Oil finishes are 'drying oils' which is a misnomer as they do not dry from evaporation but by oxidisation and polymerisation (accelerated by UV exposure) to form an irreversible plastic film.

Shellac (and wax) dry by evaporation of the solvent and are 100% reversible upon application of that solvent (alcohol for shellac, naphtha for wax) even decades later.

Shellac dries within minutes (cf. hours or days for oil) is just as easy to patch repair as oil, does not go yellow over time and can be tinted not only with pigments but also with transparent spirit stains (unlike oil, coloured oils cloud the surface and offer very low saturation colour effects)

Shellac and wax on very old timbers never requires sanding to remove, just no.5 wire wool and dcm stripper or hot washing soda and so is the best option for preserving wood.

 

[Toby Newell]

Over here the product of choice for a lasting non plastic floor finish is Rubio mono coat. From my understanding is is a modified linseed oil product. wears hard and is easily spot repaired with a re application. i do not know if it is available in the UK but I suspect with a little digging it is.

Technology

Learn about the unique technology that sets Rubio Monocoat products apart from any other wood finishing system.

www.rubiomonocoatusa.com

Ron

lol. It IS plastic.

Rubio Monocoat is an isocyanate cured ( same as Bona Traffic HD) alkyd forming plastic film made from oil (same as Bona Traffic HD except Bona uses Polyurethane resins) it might even be polyurethane based but they will never tell you that.

Another super BS finish, even they say to apply 2 or 3 coats for a good finish! not very mono!

'advanced molecular bonding technology' = laughable bs crap. Cornflakes stuck to a cereal bowl are advanced molecular bonding technology, so is bird poop on your windscreen. It is not advanced as in chemically bonds with the wood, that is a strongly inferred 'lie' which the reader does (so it's legal, possibly...) nor does it involve molecular bonding (chemical reaction) to the substrate. It's a marketing BS lie that is defendable in court, which is a calculated and sad deception. The 'molecular bonding' involves side chain bonding (polymerisation) of the monomer (oils) catalysed by the hardener (isocyanates) although I suspect they are happy for most customers to wrongly assume the molecular bonding is with the substrate. What is wrong with the truth if your product is so good? The bond is still mechanical with the timber surface.

Almost verything on their website is a lie, it DOES form a film, it does NOT form molecular bonds with the wood, it simply soaks in more than waterbased finishes then polymerises to itself forming a mechanical bond with the wood fibres. It is NOT easier to patch repair than other oils as it is harder to sand. For the best most durable finish they say to apply more than a single coat, so it's NOT a single coat finish. The pigment colours are NOT unique, you CANNOT get an intense deep colour without obscuring the grain and so it DOES affect the look of the wood. They even lie about their pre-ageing colours saying they avoid the issues with reactive stains (which may be true) but fail to mention they ARE reactive stains containing 2-aminoethanol.

Two part catalysed wood finishes have been around for over 90 years, isocyanate cured for over 30 years and high solid low solvent finishes for over 20 years. 'Advanced' is a subjective, qualitative term. I would say the bs is advanced, the technology, less so.

It's an isocyante cured plastic forming film made from oil same as Traffic HD using different ingredients. It's not monocoat as ANY finish raises the grain and needs to be cut back at least once. I suspect it's a 'duocoat' on hardwoods and a 'triocoat' on softwoods.

It looks super easy to apply and the main advantages are unlike Osmo polyox hardwax oil, which takes a year or more to fully cure (never 100% cured) it cures fully in probably a few days and is much more durable. It's also super high solids so builds quickly and it has very low solvents. No idea why they need to deceive and lie, the product seems good. Shame they don't promote it much in the UK. Might be handy for kitchen worktops for example.

It does yellow and same main issue is you cannot tint it with transparent dyes, only pigments, so you would have to pre stain.

Industrial versions are precatalysed versions with a UV sensitive inhibitor, 30 seconds in a UV tunnel and dry although it's high viscosity doesn't lend well to curtain coating which is why lower solids water solvented versions are normally used.

It's a very clever, easy to apply, relatively hard wearing finish, but it's zero percent traditional, 100 percent plastic, requires more than one coat for a perfectly smooth, durable finish and does NOT chemically bond to the wood. Not that that should matter!

All oil finishes, some used for thousands of years, all plastic.

It's a cool idea uber hyped by ridiculously deceptive fake science and marketing.

Ok, I'm a fan of nothing and no one, Traffic HD hardener contains isocyanates which on its own is pretty toxic, but so does Monocoat.

Maybe ask them what plant they get theirs from? Numpties.

 

[andyrew1]

Plenty of far more qualified answers here, just my anecdotal experience to add. We have pine floorboards we had sanded and finishied in Bona Traffic HD without too much thought to be honest, but I can confirm that it does not necessarily offer you want you think it does

As you have said pine is soft so although the Bona is hard wearing from light scratching if it is something that would dent the pine alone it will still dent and the finish being "hard" it will break it. Ours is in the hall and living room and where small stones have been walked into the house it has crushed the underlying wood and broken the finish. Our boards are quite "rustic" so it doesn't bother us much (except one particular spot right in my eyeline watching TV!) but it is definitely only as strong as the underlying wood.

 

[Toby Newell]

Plenty of far more qualified answers here, just my anecdotal experience to add. We have pine floorboards we had sanded and finishied in Bona Traffic HD without too much thought to be honest, but I can confirm that it does not necessarily offer you want you think it does

As you have said pine is soft so although the Bona is hard wearing from light scratching if it is something that would dent the pine alone it will still dent and the finish being "hard" it will break it. Ours is in the hall and living room and where small stones have been walked into the house it has crushed the underlying wood and broken the finish. Our boards are quite "rustic" so it doesn't bother us much (except one particular spot right in my eyeline watching TV!) but it is definitely only as strong as the underlying wood.

Traffic HD is one of the most forgiving finishes.

I am presuming you used Bona Prime undercoat as per the instructions which is a much softer more forgiving finish.

Wearing shoes kills wooden floors, although I have floors in one of the busiest hotels in Wales with Traffic HD that have 11 years without a recoat.

Stones will kill anything!

If you put a layer of diamond on blamange, if you poke the blamange it will still dent.

The only way to increase the hardness of wood is to pressure impregnate it with resin in an autoclave.

The two part clear coat lacquer on your car bonnet is far harder than Bona Traffic, and the steel is harder than your wood, but if you walk on it with stones in your shoes... chipped paint.

Traffic HD is the best you can get, unfortunately it doesn't come with a wand!

Unlike the Gallery section in Harrods, The Honourable Artillery Company and the Eastern Gallery at the V&A that all have my soec floors amongst orhers (all Traffic HD 1-2x Mylands Shellac Barrier Seal, 1x Bona Prime Classic, 3x Bona Traffic HD) you probably don't have a large, expensive dirt trap mat.

You could however invest in some slippers.

 

[Gothichome]

Well then, all is not what it seams as far as floor finishes and many of these advanced floor products are better used in high traffic commercial settings. I think I will just stick to what I have been doing, and just reapply Amber shellac knowing it will meld to the original shellac. And plenty of persian rugs, as befitting a proper Victorian home.

 

[Toby Newell]

You have original shellac on your floor? wow, that's amazing! some photos would be lovely, it's normally overcoated several times, gone dark brown, opaque and flaky by now. It must be quite a nice floor if it was originally finished, I guess it must be oak. Very rare to find decades old shellac. At least it's easy to sand. Always go for shellac if durability is not a concern. Also must have been rich to afford Kilims in every room. Hope they left some of those too!

 

[Toby Newell]

shellac and wax can look very similar to a lacquered floor, depending on the light (both 1685) white balance not withstanding... mind you, I shellac my lacquered floors first anyway.