Single vs double glazed windows

[Cubist]

I'm pleased to tell you that all the really hard work involved in making your home will have nothing whatsoever to do directly with the fabric of the house. That's all down to you and yours, the house is just a box until you give it some heart.... alongside a lot of sweat, a few tears and hopefully only a a spot or two of blood. Enjoy, its a hell of a ride and a damn sight better than any roller coaster.

 

[Mulder]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. We have very much gone into it knowing the challenges ahead, plenty of grumpiness and grit in equal measures, and a healthy amount of winter clothing!

We did think about doing nothing and taking our time to figure things out, but I am thinking it's better to know what we can and can't do now, rather than wait for a year and decide to do things only to find out another 6 months later they turn around and say no.

Realistically, we will not actually be able to do anything till atleast next summer anyway (we wouldn't want to be window less before then in any instance!). We are fortunate in that although the house is listed, there is no detail in the listing and for good reason. Majority of things have been changed over the years (through planning/before listing) and they even did an extension! They listed they house in 1983, after two extensions were done in 1978/1980 via PP. My guess is that the doors and windows were done at the same time, and so we if we replace them with something similar (wood, casement or flush), we may get away with it? But it will be expensive, and the money could just be spent on turning the heating up a little more instead.

Also, there is a question around whether underfloor heating might be a better option, which would remove the unsightly pipework throughout the house (which they've put just below the ceiling on GF :/ ). But it's not something I've managed to bottom out just yet. I just thought the first step should be windows but I guess when we are there, we can see where the biggest heat loss is coming from.

Sounds like you are in a similar position to me. Our windows are 1980s casements and looks terrible. They have no resemblance to the original designs (luckily we have photos to help justify our case to replace them).

We've got permission to replace the rotting single glazed timbers for double glazed metal windows that at least look more traditional. Cost an absolute fortune though. We could have gone timber which would have been cheaper. If you have timbers units already and they are not historically significant, you would have a very strong case to replace with modern timber DG units, especially if they would be in a more traditional appearance.

IWI with woodfibre boards does not look that disruptive to me. No more so than replastering a wall. The hard part will be finding a lime plasterer to apply the new finish. All depends on what level of mess and disruption you can tolerate.

Also, FWIW, I'm removing my SmartTRVs and zone valves and just going back to 'heat on or off'.
I found the problem with Smart TRVs is you can't just let them be passive, they are all constantly trying to maintain a perfect temperature for their room, which means the boiler is constantly on and off. As soon as one room reaches temp, another one calls for heat and it never ends. I'd rather have them all default to 'open' so when one room is calling for heat, everywhere else heats up too unless it gets too hot and then they shut off. Alas, they don't appear to operate like that.

 

[leyasg]

Sounds like you are in a similar position to me. Our windows are 1980s casements and looks terrible. They have no resemblance to the original designs (luckily we have photos to help justify our case to replace them).

We've got permission to replace the rotting single glazed timbers for double glazed metal windows that at least look more traditional. Cost an absolute fortune though. We could have gone timber which would have been cheaper. If you have timbers units already and they are not historically significant, you would have a very strong case to replace with modern timber DG units, especially if they would be in a more traditional appearance.

IWI with woodfibre boards does not look that disruptive to me. No more so than replastering a wall. The hard part will be finding a lime plasterer to apply the new finish. All depends on what level of mess and disruption you can tolerate.

Also, FWIW, I'm removing my SmartTRVs and zone valves and just going back to 'heat on or off'.
I found the problem with Smart TRVs is you can't just let them be passive, they are all constantly trying to maintain a perfect temperature for their room, which means the boiler is constantly on and off. As soon as one room reaches temp, another one calls for heat and it never ends. I'd rather have them all default to 'open' so when one room is calling for heat, everywhere else heats up too unless it gets too hot and then they shut off. Alas, they don't appear to operate like that.

Thanks for the comments, really helpful. Two questions from me:

1. Windows: apart from the aesthetics, is there any benefit to going with metal? I like the looks of our windows so wouldn't mind replacing them with another set of wooden ones, just with double glazing. We also have no photos of what it looked like pre 1980s.

2. Heating: the TRVs I've got are from honeywell and they don't call for heating. The heating would therefore be on 24/7. The valves just modulate the room temperature, meaning either the radiator is on or off based on your needs. Let's see if they work.

 

[LadyArowana]

If you don't occupy the whole house all the time then heating controls on a room by room basis make sense. That's what we have here. Your major outgoing will be heating the building in the winter and unfortunately solar panels will do nothing to help with that.

Having been initially reluctant to have one of those systems I am now a convert. Our builder recommended getting it during our big renovation and I wasn’t keen because I envisioned His Lordship remotely tweaking down the warmness of where I was and he wasn’t. But then I found out I could just override it from the panel in the room and happy days.

 

[fernicarry]

I found the problem with Smart TRVs is you can't just let them be passive, they are all constantly trying to maintain a perfect temperature for their room, w

Someone on here mentioned they used a version where the TRV's did cooperate to an extent to try to open at the same time. You are right that if rooms individually call for heat then the demand could fall below the minimum modulation of the boiler and it will short cycle. This will use more energy not less. Ours are fed via a thermal store so don't suffer from that problem.

 

[montyjohn]

Appreciate the comments.

For me the first step is making the home as efficient as possible over the next year or two, after living in it and finding out the quirks. This will involve draught proofing, changing all bulbs to LED and investing in thicker curtains if needed. After that, in a modern (1900 or newer) you can do more through insulation, double glazing etc. But in a 1650's house, your options are limited. Here are my thoughts in list of priority, but please add/amend where I've gone astray or you'd suggest I focus on!

1. The floor isn't likely to be insulated, but it's a major exercise. Very disruptive to do aswell. If we were to do this, we would install UFH at the same time and get rid of rads to improve aesthetics. Unsure about payback but not very high. Could instead use thick carpets/rugs throughout the house?
2. The walls aren't likely to be insulated either, and again another major exercise. Very disruptive to do and unsure about payback as it'll still need to be able to breathe so not airtight. No alternative.
3. The roof doesn't have a loft in the most part so to improve insulation will be a major task. It's got a tiled pitched roof, not thatched. No alternative.
4. Windows I thought might be an easier win (subject to LBC and a sympathetic CO), but I don't know how much of a difference that'll make on it's own - some I'd have thought given there is daylight coming through the frames. Also replace curtains with thermal/insulated heavy ones (although the ones in situ are pretty thick already).

So now, I can only improve the systems in place.
5. Boilers/radiators: Have ordered individual controllable TRV's (which I presume I can install without LBC as they can be removed), and there is already a timer on the oil boiler system. Then the question of a heat pump comes next.
6. Solar panels: Probably will do on the garage regardless. It's far enough away from the house so should get PP.

For info, house I am buying has an EPC rating of G1. It's Grade 2, Georgian, 24" solid brick walls.

I've runs some heatloss calcs (guessing window sizes to be fair, will refine when we complete) and get the following split:
It helps to prioritise and know where to spend the money.

Ventilation - 24% (air change rate is a finger int he air)
Walls - 40%
Floors - 10%
Ceiling - 15%
Windows - 11%

Given that windows only account for 11%, it seems like poor value changing them. My plan is to DIY secondary glazing with magnetic strips. Curtains also.
Sheep wool in the loft. May make a floating frame so I can reinstate some boards above it whilst getting a decent thickness.

The rest is all subject to how the conversation with the CO goes but I would like.

Wood fibre board insulation on external walls, with a skim of lime over them.
Insulation in suspended floor with UFH (if funds allow).
And if funds allow, expanded glass insulation in solid floor with UFH.
MVHR (pipes to be buried in the fiber board) so many of these items are dependent on eachother.

I'm pretty flexible on what we get approved.

For now, we will do what we can, and when finished, if we get rejected on a few items, we will try again later down the line.
I suspect they will become more open to efficiency improvements with time, not less.