Sympathetic Secondary Glazing

[malcolm]

I've been messing around with ideas for secondary glazing for a couple of years. The mainstream offerings seem to be both really ugly and very expensive. I have some wonderful 1920s arts and crafts windows with no openers and set up a table saw and router table to try for some nice fixed secondary glazing that reflects the profile of the original windows. I'm not set up for https as I have a period server so have also included links to pictures in case the pictures don't show up.

My prototyping last year got reasonably neat. It's a curved bay and the angles are a pain so profiles don't exactly match at the joins, but I've got wood filler and decided it's as good as the original window.

http://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/secondary-glazing-proof-of-concept-450x338.jpg

I've started mass production today. It's a lot of fun. Of course I'm being extra careful with the dangerous saw and table router and am well informed about safety precautions and don't want to be anywhere near a hospital!

http://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/20200330_155535-450x338.jpg

 

[Bogart]

You look very organised. The saw and router are only dangerous if used in the wrong way.

 

[CliffordPope]

That looks nice. Don't you need to be able to open them, to wipe the inevitable moisture condensation, clear out insects, cobwebs, etc?

 

[Feltwell]

Looks like a good project! Secondary glazing is definitely much easier to do sympathetically if they don't need to open on a regular basis, just lift out for occasional cleaning.

You look very organised. The saw and router are only dangerous if used in the wrong way.

Yes, but it always strikes me how many bench joiners I see that have got part of a finger missing! I know 3, all good and very experienced guys, all have got finger injuries. I use a bench saw and a router, I class them together with my chainsaw as tools that I have a very healthy respect for and slight fear of!

 

[malcolm]

I'll try to make the glass removeable by way of little screws holding the outer of the frame to the inner, and will try to make it air tight with some sealing strips. If I was organised I would have added a recess for sealing strips in the design, but I got bored designing. Maybe later. There is a good airflow between the glass and lead which will hopefully clear up any condensation.

 

[Flyfisher]

A ‘healthy respect and slight fear’ of power tools is a good thing in my book.

Some years ago I was using my table saw on some old oak and one of the tungsten carbide tips came off and hit me just above my right eyebrow, drawing blood. Even though I was wearing glasses, it still scared the life out of me! I do, however, still have all my fingers

 

[Feltwell]

As I'm becoming increasingly myopic in my advancing middle age, I've just bought a pair of safety goggles with a built-in prescription lens insert. Too many near misses as FF says!

Malcolm, even if not sealed that well secondary glazing makes a big difference. I've got some over a fixed leaded light window that is reasonably well sealed and I've never had any condensation issues.

 

[malcolm]

I'm looking forward to secondary glazing. Last winter I was feeling cold and made some temperature measurements. The thermostat to the left of me was happy at a toasty 19C. It was 15C where I was sitting, and the surface of the big bay window was 10C.

Getting on well with the vertical dividers. The sizing didn't come out exactly as expected but they look pretty which is the important thing. Redesigning the perimeter mouldings at the moment as I realised they weren't complicated enough.

http://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/center-profiles-450x338.jpg

 

[Flyfisher]

As I'm becoming increasingly myopic in my advancing middle age, I've just bought a pair of safety goggles with a built-in prescription lens insert. Too many near misses as FF says!

Apologies for the continued digression, but where did you get your prescription goggles Feltwell? I’ve never seen such thing, though I admit to never having looked specifically. I use safety goggles that fit over my usual glasses but they’re not ideal and I confess to often not bothering to use them for quick jobs . . . . I know, I know.
:roll:

I suppose I could use my prescription dive mask :lol:

 

[Feltwell]

Could be worse, you could get a prescription windscreen fitted to the car... It would freak other motorists out, they'd just see a giant pair of eyeballs driving towards them! :lol:

Here you go - they're like a pair of full safety glasses with an extra pair of prescription glasses inside:-

https://www.safetyspecs.co.uk/view-.../rxwrap-en166f-clear-with-prescription-insert

 

[Bogart]

Looks like a good project! Secondary glazing is definitely much easier to do sympathetically if they don't need to open on a regular basis, just lift out for occasional cleaning.

You look very organised. The saw and router are only dangerous if used in the wrong way.

Yes, but it always strikes me how many bench joiners I see that have got part of a finger missing! I know 3, all good and very experienced guys, all have got finger injuries. I use a bench saw and a router, I class them together with my chainsaw as tools that I have a very healthy respect for and slight fear of!

Any tool is dangerous in the hands of a tool!

Now digressing slightly if I may. Have spent the last few days on and off hollowing out an oak beam to fit over a RSJ. Chainsaws are working overtime. Whilst having a glass of wine perusing the forum I thought I wonder if anybody has a better idea than me.
I have cut the beam down to size and got the sides of the U sorted out it is just a slog to finally hollow out the centre. I do it by cutting numerous slots with a chainsaw then chiselling out, works but is laborious. I cannot think of any method/machine which might quicken up the whole process. Attached is a photo. Anyway time to go as my glass is empty. :roll:

 

[malcolm]

Please post that in a new thread @Bogart. I would be interested in replies as I have some oak and am planning to do exactly the same thing to hide some water and gas pipes.

The Victorian protocol on internet threads might disuade some people from replying to your post on this thread and that would be a shame as I would miss out too.

 

[Feltwell]

The Victorian protocol on internet threads

At the risk of doing exactly what I suspect you're trying to avoid I've never heard of that, even Google doesn't give an obvious answer! :lol:

 

[malcolm]

risk of doing exactly what I suspect you're trying to avoid I've never heard of that, even Google doesn't give an obvious answer! :lol:

I'll let you into a secret - the Victorians didn't actually have internet and this was something I made up.

I'm not bothered at all and feel free to post what you like anywhere, but we have some free space for more threads on here. I'm bored and it would be really good to see a thread about hollowing out oak beams that I can find easilly once I've finished the secondary glazing.

 

[Zebra]

Redesigning the perimeter mouldings at the moment as I realised they weren't complicated enough.

:lol: can't be making it too easy!

 

[Me!]

Now digressing slightly if I may. Have spent the last few days on and off hollowing out an oak beam to fit over a RSJ. Chainsaws are working overtime. Whilst having a glass of wine perusing the forum I thought I wonder if anybody has a better idea than me.
I have cut the beam down to size and got the sides of the U sorted out it is just a slog to finally hollow out the centre. I do it by cutting numerous slots with a chainsaw then chiselling out, works but is laborious. I cannot think of any method/machine which might quicken up the whole process. Attached is a photo.

Well, even at the risk of incurring the wrath of the guardians of the Victorian internet, I'll add a couple of comments to this.
Firstly, I will just mention that sticking a chainsaw nose-end first straight into a bit of wood is very dangerous because if the chain catches on something then the saw will tend to jump straight up towards your face!
Secondly, sticking a chainsaw nose-end first straight into the bit of wood is unfortunately what you need to do in this case. Now you have the side cuts of your "U", making a series of full depth plunge cuts across the grain at about 1" gaps would allow you to snap out each 1" section with a tap from a hammer on its side. The tool you need to achieve this (without the danger of being hit in the face with a chainsaw) is a Chain Mortiser.

 

[Bogart]

Okay new thread is my command.

 

[steveb]

I know it won't look the same, and normally I am a fan of taking the hard option - but looking at the pictures and getting a feel of the amount of work involved - as well as the danger - I can see the attraction of making the cladding out of three pieces of wood fixed together instead of hollowing out a beam

There must be some way that the beam could be cut to either hide the joins or incorporate them into a feature

 

[malcolm]

All the mouldings are finished today. I'm planning to cut the meaty ones on the bandsaw to follow the shape of the bay so I can screw them on to the window rather than the cill and ceiling. I'm not the best woodworker but it's a small picture and I think I'll get away with it.

There is one radius on the prototype that I can't figure out how I did. I bet I cheated and made it with sandpaper.

http://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/glazing-profiles-450x305.jpg

 

[Feltwell]

I'm not the best woodworker but it's a small picture and I think I'll get away with it.

You've done a lot better than most would by the look of it! Producing mouldings without machinery like a spindle moulder is not easy, or sometimes even possible.