Toilet issues..hippo bag the culprit?

[dalivar]

Hello all,
We have gone ahead and bought our house, with damp issues which I'm sure in time I will be sharing with you all

However, we currently have a smaller but more urgent problem with it! When we moved in, just before Christmas, we fitted a Hippo bag to the cistern with no problems, until a a few weeks later when the toilet became blocked. We (ha, hubby) sorted it and cleared a LOT of debris and drains were all running free again. However this morning its showing signs of another blockage. We use it as you'd expect and don't abuse it, so does anyone know what might be causing this? We are going to remove the Hippo bag later anyway but has anyone else experienced something similar?

Here's hoping!

 

[tobydog]

Isn't it simply a case of supply and demand? You're not supplying enough water to meet the demands of an old system. We had a Hippo in a modern house once and it worked fine even with a old style toilet because the route from toilet to sewer was quite short. I know for a fact that a Hippo wouldn't work in our current old house. I'm thinking that simply removing the Hippo might well sort the problem.

 

[Flyfisher]

I would certainly remove the Hippo bag for a month or so and see if it makes any difference.

On a slightly indelicate note, what was the nature of the 'LOT of debris' that was removed to clear the blockage and where was it removed from? Were there any signs of earth in the 'debris'? I'm wondering about the possibility of a cracked drain or the possible intrusion of plant roots. A full cistern of water may be enough to flush everything past a minor obstruction but a smaller volume may not, and a small restriction can quickly collect more debris until the drain is fully blocked.

 

[Feltwell]

Agree with the above, except to add that baby wipes are a notorious cause of blockages if your family use those. Try without the hippo bag, if you've still got problems then it's worth getting a drain man in with a CCTV camera system - saves a lot of work compared to digging it all up! Sometimes repairs can be done without digging the pipes up, depends on what & how bad the problem is.

One plus point of many old houses is they still have a "combined sewer", where everything goes down the same pipe - including rainwater from the roof. Not so great environmentally but every time it rains the system gets a good flush through, at least from the point where the first downpipe joins the system.

 

[wobs]

Feltwell pretty much summed up what I was going to say. It could be a damage waste pipe, and some kind of investigation would be benefitial.

Hippos though are but one way to save water in traditional toilets. Another is the Interflush system, which allows you to flush as much as you need. Both of these are far better than dual flush toilets, which have increased the average water usage for toilets, as they are prone to leaking, as they are rely upon valves, as opposed to a syphon system.

The connection between the toilet and waste pipe can also be a course for blockages. Ours is not a straight connection, as the pipe is slightly out of line with the toilet, and so the connector is offset. This sometimes courses blockages, and some persuasion with the toilet brush is sometimes needed.

As for things you shouldn't put down the toilet, these include:
Wet wipes
Cotton buds
Nappies
Any plastics
Mobile phones

BTW, be aware that there is a food that cannot be treated by sewage works, as they pass straight through it: Tomoato skins.

I've been to too many sewage works in my time.

Also, there is a recent study on plastics in sea water which found that tiny plastic particles have been found near sewer outlets, and it is thought that the source of it is from washing machines clean synthetic clothing (such as fleeces).
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/272na2.pdf

Sorry, went a bit off on one there.

 

[Lime]

I recall a holiday in Dartmouth a few years ago.
On a visit to a nearby little cove I was amazed at the scene I saw.
The entire area was completely filled with plastic bottles upto 3 bottles deep.
Only the tops of some rockpool rocks could still be seen; no sand just a complete sea of plastic.

 

[dalivar]

That's all very helpful and quite positive, thankfully Flyfisher there was no earth and the drains we've looked into seem in good condition. I also doubt plant roots would be a problem since there is nothing large growing around or near the house at the moment. However I'm not convinced there isn't some other small obstruction at the cause.
It seems we do have a combined sewer since the downpipes and other surface water drains flow to the same point, not that I realised it was unusual until you mentioned it Feltwell. This is our first house so we are learning as we go..
I have watched Life of Grime once or twice so I know about baby wipes etc, we don't flush them and Wobs, thanks for the tip re: interflush, sounds like a good design. I do endeavour not to put my mobile down the pan - though since it hasn't happened to me yet I guess the probability is stacking against me!

Thanks for the opinions, I will remove the Hippo as planned and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Feltwell]

I also doubt plant roots would be a problem since there is nothing large growing around or near the house at the moment.

"At the moment" - we found ours was clogged up with roots that we think came from a tree that a neighbour removed before we moved in, so don't rule it out completely! There can be many other problems, a joint could have popped out, a pipe broken or a bit of debris fallen in from a manhole surround. If necessary then a CCTV survey isn't too expensive these days. Rodding the whole system through from end to end is worth trying first though, a set of rods are cheap enough - just don't turn them anti-clockwise if they get stuck, like my neighbour did - it was quite a job he had to dig up a section of pipe to get the unscrewed drain rod section out.

Combined sewers are the norm on older properties but I think modern ones tend to have a seperate system for the rainwater.

BTW, be aware that there is a food that cannot be treated by sewage works, as they pass straight through it: Tomoato skins.

I too have had the dubious honour of visiting a few sewage works over the years, the tomato plants in the sludge beds that grow from the seeds that are unaffected by both the human digestive system and the sewage works are huge! What sticks in my mind the most though is the machine at the very start of the process that seperates out grit from the sewage, grit that has been mostly washed off roads, and chucks it into a skip. It also unintentionally seperates out one foodstuff that the human body doesn't seem to affect at all - sweetcorn. After seeing that machine you can never look at a tin of Jolly Green Giant in quite the same way again! Too much information.......

 

[tobydog]

So no carrots? :?

 

[Feltwell]

Not that I noticed, but I wasn't really looking to undertake an in depth study of the "raw material"!

 

[another_richard]

Hope the house was not bought in London.

Did you lift the manhole cover outside the front of the house and find the blockage?

During my time as a student I left a few surprises for greedy landlords who held back part of my deposit.

 

[Penners]

I would certainly remove the Hippo bag for a month or so and see if it makes any difference.

I agree entirely. I'm not familiar with a Hippo Bag but I assume it's a device designed to reduce the amount of water used in every flush. This could - as has been suggested above - reduce the ability of the flush system to fully clear all solids from the pipe.

As to what you put down the loo, if we're going to list everything that you shouldn't flush, this is going to be a long thread! :wink:

The simple rule is this: only flush human waste and toilet paper. Nothing else. And remember that tissues don't count as toilet paper - they're designed to hold together when wet, whereas toilet paper is designed to dissolve.

 

[Flyfisher]

It seems we do have a combined sewer since the downpipes and other surface water drains flow to the same point, not that I realised it was unusual until you mentioned it Feltwell.

Might be worth fitting those mesh filter thingies that fit into the gutter down pipes to stop leaves and other debris from entering the drains.

Otherwise, if the drains are in good condition then removing the hippo bag may be all that is necessary. Fingers crossed - let us know this time next month.

 

[Feltwell]

Might be worth fitting those mesh filter thingies that fit into the gutter down pipes to stop leaves and other debris from entering the drains.

I tried those at a previous house with bad results. The gutters used to block with leaves, so at first I fitted a product which was basically plastic mesh which clipped over the top of the gutters in an arc, the idea being to keep leaves out but allow water in. Fine in theory but I found that leaves still wedged themselves at the back of the mesh, and the mesh itself acted as a perfect home for moss to grow which blocked it very quickly, causing water to pour over the gutters.

So, I removed that and fitted the mesh ballons you suggest over the downpipe entrances instead - which very quickly blocked up and caused the gutters to overflow.

I decided to live with clearing out the grid at the bottom of the downpipes every now & then instead of needing to go up a ladder probably every other week to clear the downpipe filters. Admittedly that house had a lot of tall trees around it.

I think partly it depends on how the downpipes discharge to the sewer. If they go into a trap at ground level with a grid over it's entrance, as most older houses seem to have, then not so much of a problem - just keep that clear and not much should get through to the sewer. On some houses, esp. new ones, the downpipe often goes straight into the underground drainage via an adaptor so I guess there anything coming down the downpipe could be more of a problem.

 

[worms]

whereas toilet paper is designed to dissolve.

...but not all types do that equally well. Try avoiding any that are quilted or contain aloe vera etc for a while and see if that helps. The cheapest, supermarket version might be the answer (is that where the term "bog standard" came from?)

 

[dalivar]

Great, thanks for all the additional(!) info! Hippo now removed and so far so good, seems back to normal. Phew, I didn't even think a Hippo might cause a problem but you live and learn.

 

[dalivar]

Great, thanks for all the additional(!) info! Hippo now removed and so far so good, seems back to normal. Phew, I didn't even think a Hippo might cause a problem but you live and learn.

 

[worms]

Phew, I didn't even think a Hippo might cause a problem but you live and learn.

I don't know, finding a hippo in your cistern sounds fairly problematic to me!

 

[dalivar]

when you put it like that it does!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

whereas toilet paper is designed to dissolve.

...but not all types do that equally well. Try avoiding any that are quilted or contain aloe vera etc for a while and see if that helps. The cheapest, supermarket version might be the answer (is that where the term "bog standard" came from?)

My man tells me it comes from motor sport in the 1950s and refers to a relatively unmodified car - ie box standard, as it came out of the box; which transmogrified into bog standard by the 60s and 70s.

Incidentally dalivar, whereabouts in Flintshire are you? We're developing a small N Wales/Shropshire PPK contingent to rival the larger group from East Angular.