Victorian cottage- some knowledge sought!

[torquaycottage]

Greetings all,
Very interesting place, this... can anyone assist with this query?
We bought an 1860 Gothic Revival stone, end-of-terrace cottage in Torquay in August which is listed GII; it was built as teacher's accommodation for the local school.
Much of the interior (and exterior for that matter) has been adulterated over the years and rather suspect the chimney-breast in the back room is a sad casualty of same. It is uneven stone which has been rendered over at some point and painted white, a bit like a 17c or 18c cottage might have been. There is no surround at all and an opening 36" square. I'm pretty sure the Victorians wouldn't have designed it like this. I've added a couple of images taken from the agent's details, prior to when we bought it. Any opinions as to what would've been there in terms of surface finish and type of surround etc would be very welcome as I am inclined to restore it to something like its original, subject to the usual permissions. As a matter of interest, the local CO has been very helpful since we invited him round on day 1 and has provided some very good advice and help in sourcing local crafts people to carry out the necessary works.
Since this image was taken the place is covered in scaffolding for the new roof slates, repairs to chimney stack and crack to side elevation. Rotting timberwork beckons next...

Many thanks,
Robert

 

[MdB]

Hi Robert from someone not too far away.

My very much inexpert view would be that your chimney would have been originally flat lime rendered probably with a fireplace insert. The lime has fallen off at some stage and then covered with a thin layer instead. Others will probably comment better.

 

[Pford75]

I'm no expert, but from the external photograph, it looks as though the adjacent terrace has the same style chimney above roof. Have you considered asking your neighbours if you could have a peek at their fireplace?

 

[Feltwell]

My very much inexpert view would be that your chimney would have been originally flat lime rendered probably with a fireplace insert. The lime has fallen off at some stage and then covered with a thin layer instead. Others will probably comment better.

Well, not this "other" anyway - I think you're right. The opening you have visible there Robert just looks like the builder's opening to me, which was never intended to be seen and which had an fireplace insert installed in it as MdB says. As for style - as Pford suggests, local buildings of a similar age are the best guide, but you'll never really know what was there originally. A variety of inserts could have gone in there - a combination fireplace (so all in cast iron) or a cast iron insert with wood or stone surround.

If I had to take a total stab in the dark - an arch topped insert without hood would be typical of the age, like this:-

http://www.fireplaceantiques.co.uk/Product/Early-Victorian-Arched-Grate-in-Cast-Iron-/10798/857

With a surround to suit - not sure what was prevalent in your part of the world, wood or stone. Or a combination like this - again, arch topped and no hood. These were popular in t'north, not sure about the west country.

http://www.oldfireplaces.co.uk/product_pages/ProductF081_MC.htm

Ignore the size of those, it's just the general style I'm talking about. Flat lime plastering and a new fireplace would look a lot better I reckon, if your CO will agree to it.

Just a final thought - I'm presuming it was a tied house, i.e. went with the schoolteacher's job? If so I'd err on the side of plain and functional rather than ornate & fancy. Also bear in mind than an open fireplace will be considerably less efficient than the stove you have there now.

 

[torquaycottage]

Many thanks everyone for your useful input, all of which I am inclined to agree with, especially Feltwell about the probable simplicity of the place as there is no evidence of decorative cornice, ceiling rose or dado.
I visited the lady's cottage next door for inspiration only to discover a '30s tiled fireplace! I haven't as yet ventured further up the row but probably will do so now.
The front room has a black marble fireplace surround so at least there's that- although with a modern gas fire in it with ersatz stone panel. Lovely.
Rob

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Welcome to the forum Robert - looking forward to hearing/seeing your progress as it happens.

I'm so glad that listing of properties protects them in the exact state they were in when listed - it would be a cultural crime to alter that decor! :shock:

 

[torquaycottage]

Many thanks FW. I'm glad I emphasized the fact that they were the agent's photos...

This is our first foray into the world of listed buildings and what I have discovered is that the local authority, whilst putatively the guardians of our built heritage, are either utterly overwhelmed, underfunded, time poor or most probably a combination of all three. In our case, unsympathetic works in 1980 to add a horrible rear extension were approved by the local authority when in fact the building was listed in the 1970's. This fact came to light during the searches last year and through my checking with English Heritage.

Today I learned from the stone mason that the pointing on the front wall is old cement and is rock hard, so not the proper lime mortar. There's no damp inside or spalling or other issues apparent so I'm wondering whether to leave it alone for a few years...the money pit ever deepens...
Rob

 

[Feltwell]

Today I learned from the stone mason that the pointing on the front wall is old cement and is rock hard, so not the proper lime mortar. There's no damp inside or spalling or other issues apparent so I'm wondering whether to leave it alone for a few years...the money pit ever deepens...
Rob

If it ain't broke don't fix it. If it looks fairly acceptable then leave it alone - cement pointing *can* cause damp and other problems, not *will*. You risk damaging the stone in taking it out. Live with it for a couple of years at least and see if you get any problems.

As I'm sure others on here will echo - take your time, get used to the place, way up the options before embarking on big changes. Not everything needs fixing at once - I often find myself telling myself "it needs sorting but it's probably been like that for at least 50 years, it's not desperate and it will wait a couple more".

 

[Penners]

Welcome to the forum, Robert.

I agree with everything that's been said above. That chimney breast/fireplace is an aesthetic crime - I'm so glad that you plan to change it!

Feltwell has shown you some good examples of Victorian fireplaces, and you'll find that the world is your oyster when it comes to choosing an authentic design. I also agree that the chimney breast is crying out to be rendered over in lime plaster (best if you can strip off any modern paint first).

I also find that arched doorway a bit of an eyesore, but maybe that's just me!

Lovely house, though. Do keep us informed of your progress.

 

[torquaycottage]

Thanks again folks- my sentiments precisely. Tend to agree with the arched opening although someone has taken the trouble to slope it- but it reminds me of old WWII tunnels that you go down to view the look-out station- like the one at the Needles Old Battery.
R

 

[JoceAndChris]

Lovely house Rob, and welcome to the forum, where I think you're getting and will get some extremely good advice.

The arched doorway has many fine examples in late eighteenth and early nineteenth century polite architecture. In the early 20th C it seems to have had a revival along with the general resurgence of interest in neo-Classicism. My house is stuffed with Soanian/Palladian arches.

However, in your house, I think the arch goes along with the fireplace - someone's idea of how a period property should be without ever looking in any books or visiting properties built at that time.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

We do, however, love the pictures of Joce on the walls. :wink:

When you get to know her better, she may offter to loan you some others....

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol:

I must say that I've a lot of sympathy for the previous owner who's tried to turn the little schoolteacher's house into a palace. For those of us clearly meant to be princesses but lacking funds it sometimes is the only way!

 

[robgil]

:lol:

For those of us clearly meant to be princesses but lacking funds it sometimes is the only way!

Some of that sentence describes me perfectly. :lol:

 

[Schoolmarm]

The first part 8)