Victorian House Roof

[matt80]

Hi,

The roof of my Victorian semi is getting very tired and is suffering under the strain of too many bodge job repairs over the years.

I've had a quote to re-roof using reclaimed Welsh slates, assuming a re-use of around 80% of my existing slates and 20% reclaims for £5200+VAT.

This is quite cheap compared to other quotes and was wondering if anyone had any advice. I'm particularly unsure about the reclaims... how do I know that he will choose good quality reclaims and that they won't start to fail relatively soon? How can I also tell that they are indeed Welsh... is there any way to tell that it is Welsh slate?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Feltwell]

It's very hard to say Matt. I replaced all my original clay tiles with new, as so many of the original ones were shot - at least 50% on one roof face - and others were starting to go.

But that is a manufactured item, not a natural one like slate. My knowledge on slate is limited but I thought it was usually that the nails went and slates slipped, more than the slates themselves deteriorating? I've no doubt some will be deteriorating but I would expect the disturbance caused by lifting them will finish them off.

You won't really have any idea beyond the roofer's experience of what percentage will come off and be in a re-useable condition until you've done the job. In the same way you won't really know the extent of any timber repairs until the slates are off, unless the roof is in a seriously bad way and it's obvious that several rafters have gone.

Artificial slates look pretty horrible in my opinion, I would go for the reclaims and just make sure they are sorted well. As for being able to tell if they are genuinely Welsh or not - well, I doubt that reclaims are likely to be anything else. Chinese and Spanish slate has come in during relatively recent times and I would have thought is unlikely to have made it onto the salvage market in any quantity yet, the buildings they have been used on will mostly still be standing. Only my opinion though, it's not borne out of an intimate knowledge of the roofing salvage market!!

New slate is a different matter of course, you can still get Welsh at a price, imported is cheaper but I understand the colour can be quite different and they can be of variable quality.

Other things to watch out for - what membrane is he planning to use under the slates? Proctor Roofshield I would recommend - not the cheapest but very tough, my roofer used a much cheaper product for some temporary covering and it was noticeably inferior. What's he planning for on the leadwork? It should be new lead throughout really.

But most importantly get some references. The main variation in the quality of roofing work is the quality of the labour. Nothing beats a good recommendation in my opinion, especially for roofing.

 

[MdB]

For foreign slate, Brazilian is worth a look at. My tiling mate, recommends it and both our neighbours and ourselves used it. Stay clear of Indian slate as it apparently needs to be left in the ground for another million years or so for it to come up to strength.

 

[AMc]

I had part of my house reslated (t leaked and my building control approval relied on it being insulated in the roofline).
My roofer was "confident" that everything that came off could go back on then between Christmas and New Year he knocked on the door and announced he was going off because he'd run out of slates. He was about 2/3rds of the way along

I then spent a lot of time and effort sourcing wide duchess (12"x24") slates. I got quotes from reclaimation yards as far away as Northern Ireland and the West Country and sourced new Chinese slate (by the pallet) from "The natural slate company" according to my sample/drinks mat here which seems perfectly reasonable to my eye in comparison to my original and reclaimed extras,

In the end I used Salvo to source some from a reclamation field (yard being too grand) up near Kings Lynn which involved me borrowing a van and doing an exchange of cash for slates with a bloke in camo gear who was warmly telling me he wished he'd brought his gun to shoot the flock of pigeons flying nearby - nervous I may have been but the guy was genuine and the slates were good.

Various people confirmed that you can reasonably expect to replace about 40% of the slates on a reroof so I would adjust your expectations & quote accordingly.

I would also source the reclaims yourself if you are fussy and start before you begin to remove the old roof. It took the best part of 2 weeks of phone calls, emails and call backs to find what I needed (albeit mine are unusually large slates).

 

[Feltwell]

In the end I used Salvo to source some from a reclamation field (yard being too grand) up near Kings Lynn which involved me borrowing a van and doing an exchange of cash for slates with a bloke in camo gear who was warmly telling me he wished he'd brought his gun to shoot the flock of pigeons flying nearby - nervous I may have been but the guy was genuine and the slates were good.

That's the best sort of "yard"! The one nearest to me has Range Rover Sport's littering the car park, antiques and a full F&B paint display in the shop, and prices for their reclaims to match. Their stuff is no better than anyone else's, just presented in a posher environment than most.

 

[Lime]

Hi,The roof of my Victorian semi is getting very tired and is suffering under the strain of too many bodge job repairs over the years.
I've had a quote to re-roof using reclaimed Welsh slates, assuming a re-use of around 80% of my existing slates and 20% reclaims for £5200+VAT.
This is quite cheap compared to other quotes and was wondering if anyone had any advice. I'm particularly unsure about the reclaims... how do I know that he will choose good quality reclaims and that they won't start to fail relatively soon? How can I also tell that they are indeed Welsh... is there any way to tell that it is Welsh slate?
Thanks,
Matt

Reclaimed slate should be fine.
Make your concerns clear to your roofer.
The main worry is cracked slates being used.
If the old slates are not cracked they will be fine.

 

[stuart45]

I've just put about 2,500 14x6 reclaimed Welsh slates on an extension I'm building at home, and the majority were in reasonable condition. You can hear if they ring when tapped before using. Another way to test them in the yard when buying small amounts is to hold them with one hand each side and twist them.If they snap you don't want them.
The fact they could have been on the roof for over a hundred years in an industrial area means that you have to be a bit carefull when buying reclaimed.
I have seen some really poor quality Welsh being sold.

 

[middi]

I agree with Lime. I don't think you need to worry too much, after all if the slates match and are of similar thickness ( as they should be) they will be fine.

I know that there are some opportunist "cowboys" about and it is best to check ( if you can) on some previous work your chosen builders have done.

I presume that new battens and breatheable roof membrane will be used , standard roof felts, ie- tar based, tend to condense water droplets on the underside if the roof void is not ventilated. As long as all this is done you should not have much to worry about.

Middi

 

[Nigel Watts]

I suggest you get a quote for new slates as well, for comparison purposes.

When I reslated my house about 9 years ago I was pleasantly surprised and ended up choosing new Welsh slates over used ones. My roof areas however is very small in relation to the house, which is a narrow four storey semi with a low roof pitch.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

If you're concerned the quote seems low, then you need to check with him what happens if he can't reuse the 80% of your existing slates he's suggested?

If he "suddenly" finds only 50% are reusable, the cost of the additional ones may account for the difference.

I'm not suggesting some contractors out there employ sharp practices, (perish the thought! :shock but he may quote low in these times to get the work, only to bump it up later.

 

[Lime]

If you're concerned the quote seems low, then you need to check with him what happens if he can't reuse the 80% of your existing slates he's suggested?

If he "suddenly" finds only 50% are reusable, the cost of the additional ones may account for the difference.

I'm not suggesting some contractors out there employ sharp practices, (perish the thought! :shock but he may quote low in these times to get the work, only to bump it up later.

In theory, quotes should not rise in price only estimates are expected to do that.
I think it a reasonable quote, not a cheap one, although many people pay a fortune for having similar, simple jobs done.
I paid less than half of what a neighbour paid to have the roof done.
They were persuaded to have their slate roof replaced with concrete tiles, I had my slates reused.
From a rough estimation of the job they used 50% of mine and bought in 50%.
Most of my slates would have been fine but for their rough handling.
The neighbour regrets not having slate in retrospect.

 

[matt80]

If you're concerned the quote seems low, then you need to check with him what happens if he can't reuse the 80% of your existing slates he's suggested?

If he "suddenly" finds only 50% are reusable, the cost of the additional ones may account for the difference.

I did mention this to him, and he said that he didn't think that would be the case as he can tell by looking that there are plenty of re-usable slates. So if he tries that one further down the road, I think I can remind him of this conversation!

 

[MatthewC]

I've had a quote to re-roof using reclaimed Welsh slates, assuming a re-use of around 80% of my existing slates and 20% reclaims for £5200+VAT.

In my experience, you'll be very lucky to re-use that figure. A year ago my roofer gave me a similar sort of quote and reckoned that we would lose 30%, but in the end it was nearer 50% -60%, I reckon. We also used all the slates off the extension as that was falling down! When we rebuilt the extension more recently, I bought a load of reclaimed slates from a local reclamation yard, and we had 10% - 15% of those fail as well. I needed about 15 to finish the job so went back and got them for free.

Reclaimed are far cheaper than new, of course. You wouldn't want to mix new and old, nor foreign and Welsh, as I think such a mix would look very odd (and may cause issues with different thicknesses?).

Make sure your roofer knows that you do (or will) live there. When I started work on this place, they all assumed I was developing it for resale so I had to make sure that they knew that I wanted a better standard than that implied! Even so, when the roofer chucks a good looking slate off the roof you do have to dismiss the thought that it was worth £1.50 (or whatever). You have to think of it as saving a roof repair in five years time.

See the 2010 archive on my blog http://houseintheenchantedforest.blogspot.com/

Matthew

 

[Keithj]

Check, too, whether the 2011 Part L rules mean the council will turn up and tell you that you have to fit 100mm Celotex in the rafters, thermal blanket over the top and under the slates. That could increase the cost a tad.

We were told that there is some percentage of new tiles/slates above which it's a "new" roof and has to comply with the regs as if it were a new build.

Happily, our Tudor roof didn't have a rafter space to put the Celotex in, and we'd already specified the thermal blanket thing anyway.