Wall Feature Mystery

[Flyfisher]

When we were revamping our drawing room a couple of years ago we found this circular feature under the wallpaper above a door . . .



It looked as if it was originally a hole that had subsequently filled in but other than being a curiosity, we didn't really think anything of it. This is in the original C16 part of the house.

Fast forward to today and we've started revamping another room, this time in the C17 addition part of the house, starting with removing a stud-wall to open up the room back to its original size (LBC duly sought and granted btw :wink: ) and, lo and behold, another circular 'feature' above a door . . .





It looks to me as if it was once a circular hole through the wall and someone had gone to the trouble of painting it blue so presumably it was intended to be on show. Also presumably it was filled in later, with someone going to the trouble of 'rounding off' a pamment in order to plug the hole before plastering over the whole thing. The stud wall is not original to the building of the C17 extension, though we have no confirmed date of its construction but we do know quite a bit of work was carried out in the 1930s.

Any ideas?

 

[steveb]

Servant's call bell type arrangement is all that immediately springs to mind.

 

[Flyfisher]

Interesting idea, how would it work though?

The house does have one of those new-fangled electrickery operated servants bell board, though I'm guessing you're thinking of something much older?

 

[steveb]

No idea. I have a mental image of a giant series of elaborate hemp ropes and pulleys running across the top of the house to an old sprung bell a bit like at the top here

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/did-you-ring-sir-country-house-communication-through-the-ages

Then you have a servant in the room with you,which you instruct to pull the cord to ring the bell to summon the servant that you want.

I also see that page mentions "speaking tubes" but sadly provides no pictures but you should be able to get some inspiration from here:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/a7/63/38a7630175a406385813fc9e3b50bcde.jpg

Dive Dive!

 

[Flyfisher]

I know the sort of thing you mean, but all the wires and pulleys would surely not require a fairly large hole above the door?

 

[Kearn]

I know the sort of thing you mean, but all the wires and pulleys would surely not require a fairly large hole above the door?

Equally, why plaster and paint if it’s use was purely a functional channel - there would be some evidence of rubbing marks etc on the internal surface...

 

[Feltwell]

They look about the right size for 4" duct for extractor fans, but obviously not meant for that!

Mind you, my parent's house had extractor fans in *every* room venting straight into the loft! That was one of the more rational things the previous owner had done...…..

 

[Zebra]

Interesting. With its position straight from one room into another, not disappearing off somewhere, it must have been intended for the passage of air, or sound, or warmth, or cream buns...? What function do / did these two rooms have? Is it upstairs or downstairs? (just curious, as I can just about remember the layout of your house!...)

 

[Flyfisher]

Both rooms are downstairs. The first photo is a drawing room off the main entrance hall and the circular feature is above the door to the hall.

The second/third photos are in another reception room where the stud wall I'm removing divided off part of the room to form another hallway and the 'hole' is above a door between the room and the created hallway. I believe this room was once a kitchen but that was changed in the 1930s and it became another reception room, probably a dining room. Both rooms have fireplaces, though I doubt they needed additional ventilation.

Perhaps there's some significance about both features being in a hallway wall?

 

[paulc]

There is quite a bit of brick & mortar surrounding the hole. This suggests that it might have supported some weight - Is there corresponding holes in opposite walls at a similar height ?

 

[Flyfisher]

I think the surrounding bricks and mortar are simply to position the hole in the desired place. I also think this suggests that the hole might have been added after the stud wall was built, otherwise why not add suitable timbers within the wall at the time of the original build? I doubt there are any structural reasons for the brickwork. The doorway is close to a massive beam than spans the entire room and the stud wall has been built up to it, not to provide any support. Also, placing anything intended to bear considerable weight above a doorway that has no structural lintel, just the stud wall framing, seems unlikely to me. Interesting ideas though.

Here's another photo that might give a bit more context. Incidentally, the lower part of the 'plaster' (up to the straight line) was a rock-hard cement render with a plaster skim, so presumably fairly modern. The plaster above was a more conventional haired lime plaster. Other parts of the wall (out of sight to the left) were plasterboard, so the wall has clearly been 'mucked about' over the years.

 

[Kearn]

Lathes look Victorian? (I’m looking at a low res photo on phone though, so could certainly be wrong!)

There are certain features in our place that I’ve had to leave finding an answer to, or at least push to the very back of mind for another day - hopefully this isn’t one of those!

What I am hoping though is that fireplace in the through room is on the plans...?

 

[Feltwell]

Do they line up across the house FF? I'm thinking tie rods between external walls / beams - although why you would want to leave holes that size open around tie rods would still be a mystery......

 

[Flyfisher]

Not sure I'd know what a Victorian lath looks like, though they might well be. They are not riven laths though, definitely sawn.

This 'holes' in the two rooms do not line up, in fact they are at right-angles to one another. We do have some tie-rods in another part of the house but they are all at beam-level whereas these 'holes' are well below ceiling and beam level. Keep the ideas coming though!

As for the fireplace . . . the LBC application included removing the brickwork and opening up to the original inglenook so that's next on the list once the stud wall has gone.

 

[Kearn]

Not sure I'd know what a Victorian lath looks like, though they might well be. They are not riven laths though, definitely sawn.

Quite likely then - to give a vague lower end of the period guestimation!

As for the fireplace . . . the LBC application included removing the brickwork and opening up to the original inglenook so that's next on the list once the stud wall has gone.

Hope an answer regarding the holes comes soon, as I’ll forget all about them very quickly if pics of the fireplace appear...!

I’ve just lost 30 mins delving into Victorian speaking tubes, if you will; and while interesting, doesn’t seem to be relevant to these oddities.

However, I’d never until now encountered the idea of an opening transom above a door to provide temperature regulation, in addition to light flooding. That said, I’ve only briefly found opening windows, not permanent holes...

Hmm.....

 

[Flyfisher]

I've wondered if they could be some form of early 'transom' for light. In the first photo the hallway beyond the door is completely windowless, so I suppose it would have allowed some light through from the room, though not much light would get through such a small opening, though in the days of candlelight and oil lamps perhaps any natural light would be beneficial? Doesn't seem likely though.

Speaking tubes are an interesting idea, but why route them above doorways? Very conspicuous, I'd have thought, and would such a large hole be required in the first place?

Temperature regulation? Hmm. It's certainly true that we've had these rooms uncomfortably warm from a large open fire on occasion but the solution has been to simply open the door for a bit. I'm sure previous occupants would also have thought of that.

Good to hear ideas though, however wild they may be. Sorry to be so negative but none 'feel' right so far. The frustrating thing is that these features have clearly required a significant amount of effort to build, so there must have been a pretty good reason for bothering. But if there is was a good reason, why would it not be more widely known? Yet, I can find no reference anywhere online (though that could easily just be my own incompetence!).

Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice might say.

 

[Kearn]

Does the blue paint continue onto the surrounding wall?

I didn’t think the speaking tubes were feasible either, but intriguing nonetheless!

The transom logic that I read wasn’t for light, but removal of warm air for an attempt at temperature regulation - why over a door, who knows. But given your ceiling height, they’re not really high up enough to do this job either...

I had a similar frustration with my odd find a few years back....
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16018&p=218761#p218761

Never got close to an answer that made sense. And the obvious sounding ones from the outside were too easily ruled out unfortunately! I’ve put it to the back of my mind for now!

 

[Zebra]

For elephants to pass their trunks through, when they want to fetch something from the next room but can't get through the door?

 

[Zebra]

A servants' periscope, to see whether the assembled company have finished their soup yet?

 

[MatthewC]

Not sure I'd know what a Victorian lath looks like, though they might well be. They are not riven laths though, definitely sawn.

Quite likely then - to give a vague lower end of the period guestimation!

My house is from 1862 I believe, and it has sawn laths.

On one spot the plaster was coming off and there was a bendy lath underneath, so I assumed riven lath and bought a large amount. Then when I got all the lath off two lath walls and three ceilings, I found that I had made the decision based on the only place where the lath was not uniform!