What to do with these wood walls

[Oldish House]

Hi , looking for some advice.

I have a wooden wall that has previously had some car spray paint overspray on it which I have been unable to remove with paint stripper or toluene, also there are areas that have deteriorated over time to the very uneven surface you can see in the pictures. We have also stripped another wall of its plaster as it was in poor condition.

So my questions:
- What can I do with this car spray paint overspray?
- What can I do with the poor condition areas? Should I gently sand them back?
- With the other wall (which had the plaster removed), what would you do? Replaster it or leave as wood?
- I was thinking that I could use clear briwax on the bare wood - is that a good idea or are there better alternatives?

Interested to hear your thoughts on how best to sort these walls out.

Thanks,

 

[Kearn]

Two very different walls there. The first is a more than ‘oldish’ plank and muntin screen. Is it by any chance along one edge of a cross passage, central to your house? It shouldn’t have ever been plastered and frustrating the Victorians have left their tack scars across it, it’s meant to be seen.

There are better waxes, a homemade beeswax and turps coating is cheap and very nourishing.

Personally, I can’t spot the paint overspray. Sanding needs to be very carefully done, if at all. A nice thick beeswax will fill holes and give a smoother appearance.

The second image is an odd one, old floorboards repurposed as an internal fence, later lathed over…

It would help / be interesting to give some context on the property, age, location of these walls…

 

[Toby Newell]

I have a wooden wall that has previously had some car spray paint overspray on it which I have been unable to remove with paint stripper or toluene, also there are areas that have deteriorated over time to the very uneven surface you can see in the pictures. We have also stripped another wall of its plaster as it was in poor condition.

Uneven? The green elm probably 'deteriorated' to that uneven level mostly in the first two years after it was built. The holes are courtesy of centuries of CF and PP beetle. I would argue it has aged rather than deteriorated and that your 300 yr old bit of elm has actually improved over it's lifetime. Seeing as elm of this age is up to 8x more expensive than new, it's price hasn't deteriorated! Not sure it needs anything really. Just keep the house warm. Looks amazing to me.

What can I do with this car spray paint overspray?

Strip with DCM stripper. I normally use coarse steel wool (no 6 Trollul, or no 5 MW co) wire wool but can snag, so get 500g of that and a couple of Liberon bronze liming brushes, normal steel brushes would be too coarse. I won't ask how or why someone sprayed car paint on it. Toluene might soften it, xylene a better bet if single pack but neither wouldn't touch 2 pack. DCM will remove single pack fairly easily and 2k with a little more effort, I use Paramose. The strippers you get from the DIY stores are laughably useless. DCM is a class 2A carcinogen and you can only buy it from specialist suppliers if you promise to use it in 'industrial premises' yet eating sausages is a class 1 carcinogen and they can feed sausages to your children at nursery. Buy a 3M disposable A2P3 half mask and a pair of Nitrex 440 gloves and of course eye protection.

- What can I do with the poor condition areas? Should I gently sand them back?

Poor condition areas? Sorry (not being sarcastic) please explain. It all looks the same to me! Considering it looks like 300 to 400 year old elm I would say it's in pretty fair condition. You are very lucky to have any elm left of that age, it rots and gets eaten much faster than oak. It looks pretty amazing to me. Yes. You will need to wash off the stripper, neutralise and sand the raised grain. Either by hand and / or with machine. I use a Festool ETSEC 150/3 and Festool Rotex RO90. P120 or P150 should be all you need. You can finish with a P240 if you want to burnish it.

- With the other wall (which had the plaster removed), what would you do? Replaster it or leave as wood?

The other wall is janky, looks like barn siding to me, doesn't look like original period installation. You could gently sand, then boiling soda wash and oxalic acid it to try and remove some of the iron stains and plaster burns. Hard to see from here if they are oak or elm. I guess it depends on how nice they clean up. Doesn't look original period to me but might be a very old alteration. As such if your house is listed and you invite the CO round for tea, maybe breeze past it.

- I was thinking that I could use clear briwax on the bare wood - is that a good idea or are there better alternatives?

Wax is a pretty bad idea. Wax isn't a finish. It's a 'finish-er' that goes on top of an existing finish to smooth it out, even up the sheen and to clean and maintain it. Think: old fashioned Pledge. It will simply soak in, go patchy, get stuck in the interstices, absorb water and go misty and opaque. There is no need to coat with anything, wood needs zero 'nourishment'.

If you want to coat with something I would use special pale transparent shellac or shellac sanding sealer. It's very thin, you can work it into all the holes. Dries in minutes. I use from 2 to 7 coats. Sand the first coat really well with some P240, 3M trimite is the best (stearated silicon carbide) sand the 2nd and subsequent coats with a fine thin sanding sponge, you might need a few as they will get torn up. Sand the final coat then apply a good quality beeswax.

There are better waxes, a homemade beeswax and turps coating is cheap and very nourishing.

Hmmm. Tried that when I frst started. It is fun! But quite expensive and quite dangerous. Will probably cost you about £50 quid minimum to make an inferior wax and I've never been able to melt it on a double boiler without it catching on fire at least once! Wax doesn't nourish the wood, wax only 'nourishes' finishes by slowing them drying out and perishing. No idea where all this nourishing malarky came from. I guess it's because French polishing was removed from the school curriculum in the 1960s. Wax isn't a finish lol! And lol, wax isn't a filler, it would look horrible and go white, would look like paint in the grain after a few weeks, the less wax the better. You can fill larger gaps with self coloured 2 pack polyester filler, but I actually like the holes and cracks, I normally fill none or a few selected ones. As regards the worm galleries you can use Lecol 7500 resin filler mixed with the sanding dust. Very messy and a bit of a fools errand on a vertical. But hey ho, if it bothers you. I fill maybe 4 or 5 times on a similar elm or oak floor, so maybe 5 to 10 times for a vertical.

But I agree, Briwax (the most popular, apparently) is awful, never use the stuff. The two best waxes in the world are Mylands traditional which has the highest carnauba content but is very stiff, this used to be my go to but meh, they say it's the same 1884 Gedges recipe yet they recently replaced the gum turpentine with white spirits. So I use Harrells (made by Jenkins) from a 1931 recipe, slightly softer, slightly less carnauba but smells delish with gum turpentine, both are excellent waxes. You cannot buy or make better waxes. And this is a man with 5 different shellacs, 5 different waxes, 4 different oils, 6 different water based lacquers a precat, ac and 2k pu on his van.

Consider buying the coloured version, khaki or antique, this will impart little colour to sealed timber but when it dries it big lumps in the cracks / holes etc, it won't go white and opaque so easily so will look better. Fyi, I have done this sort of stuff many hundreds of times. Looks great, is totally natural, breathable and reversible.

The first wall is very pretty and very rare and should look beautiful, well, more beautiful than it does now, which is pretty lovely already.

You can buy all the gear from Jenkins, ask them to throw in a no 12 or no 14 zorino polishing mop (in my avatar I am coating a 200 year old bit of elm in shellac, with a no 10 Jenkins zorino) , you will need that, you can't apply shellac with a paintbrush. And ask them for an apron so you have somewhere to keep your sanding sponge and pretend you know what you are doing.

 

[Zebra]

The wall in the first two pictures looks lovely, and I don't see where it would need any further stripping, just whatever treatment you've been advised above. The last picture though, I'm not so sure I'd leave that uncovered, I don't know....

 

[Oldish House]

Thank you for the feedback. I shall try to add some additional context regarding the house - as I understand it. I have also added some additional photos to show the paint / insect damage (I am more bothered about removing the paint), and a couple of photos of the room as there seems to be some interest in that too.

The house is estimated to have been built in around 1600. It is described to me as a 'house barn', the room you see in the photos is what I have been told would have been the farmers living quarters (now our dining room ) and what we have as a living room would have been the barn area where animals lived (there is an inglenook fireplace in the living room that is believed to have been added sometime in the 1700's). It is certainly true to say the dining room has more 'grand' features than the living room. The plank and muttin screen is on the far exterior wall and now contains a recessed bookshelf which I has guessed may have been an external doorway in the past. I am in the fortunate position to confirm the house is not listed.

Toby - thank you for the feedback on the paint removal (I am told a previous owner used to respray car parts in that room grrr words fail me - even given my naivety in how to best look after this wall even I can see it is a valuable piece of history that should be preserved)

By poor condition areas I am referring to historic damage from beetles (additional photos show probably the worst areas) - if you feel this does not need anything done then I am more than capable of that!

What do you mean by 'neutralise and sand the raised grain'? How far back should I be sanding? I just want to make sure I don't misinterpret and do something to damage the wall.

Sounds like the other wall is of less historical interest so experimenting with sanding and cleaning to my hearts contend is ok, and if it still looks naff then I can get it plastered over.

I am keen not to do something to the plank and muttin wall that will cause lasting damage!

 

[Oldish House]

I should add the janky (new word - thank you) was left bare after removing the original lime plaster as the builder thought it looked nice bare (I was never convinced) so not too worried about getting it plastered. It is quite interesting seeing that it is sat on a layer of stone though which may be lost if plastered over.

 

[Toby Newell]

Thank you for the feedback. I shall try to add some additional context regarding the house - as I understand it. I have also added some additional photos to show the paint / insect damage (I am more bothered about removing the paint), and a couple of photos of the room as there seems to be some interest in that too.

The house is estimated to have been built in around 1600. It is described to me as a 'house barn', the room you see in the photos is what I have been told would have been the farmers living quarters (now our dining room ) and what we have as a living room would have been the barn area where animals lived (there is an inglenook fireplace in the living room that is believed to have been added sometime in the 1700's). It is certainly true to say the dining room has more 'grand' features than the living room. The plank and muttin screen is on the far exterior wall and now contains a recessed bookshelf which I has guessed may have been an external doorway in the past. I am in the fortunate position to confirm the house is not listed.

Toby - thank you for the feedback on the paint removal (I am told a previous owner used to respray car parts in that room grrr words fail me - even given my naivety in how to best look after this wall even I can see it is a valuable piece of history that should be preserved)

By poor condition areas I am referring to historic damage from beetles (additional photos show probably the worst areas) - if you feel this does not need anything done then I am more than capable of that!

What do you mean by 'neutralise and sand the raised grain'? How far back should I be sanding? I just want to make sure I don't misinterpret and do something to damage the wall.

Sounds like the other wall is of less historical interest so experimenting with sanding and cleaning to my hearts contend is ok, and if it still looks naff then I can get it plastered over.

I am keen not to do something to the plank and muttin wall that will cause lasting damage!

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Photos aren't super high res but I can't see any medullary rays or sapwood distinction and the grain is a bit squirly so I am still team elm, which is quite rare for this age. Looks lovely, I've never seen a wall like that.

What do you mean by 'neutralise and sand the raised grain'? How far back should I be sanding? I just want to make sure I don't misinterpret and do something to damage the wall.

Water washable you wash with hot water or very dilute washing soda. For normal DCM you need to wash with meths or white spirits.

The wall is rough anyway, it looks like it was previously limewashed, lath put over the top and then stripped at some point.

It's not a case of 'sanding back' you cannot remove the worm galleries, they go all the way through. If you want to remove some of the friable parts you keep sanding and scraping until you are happy.

You don't need to sand anything at all and neither do you need to coat it with anything. Sanding is an aesthetic thing and makes cleaning easier, as does coating. The rough surface will hold onto a lot of dust, but you can simply vacuum regularly with a soft upholstery brush, you will get a few flakes and splinters come off each time, but nothing major.

It's already been stripped. There is no 'right' option, lightly sanding and stabilising it by coating will remove wood, but make it less friable in the long term. I wouldn't bother filling the worm though. As I said, wax is a very bad idea to fill, it will go milky and off gas for years.

When clients ask me it's very hard to advise, if it were my house I would probably treat as I described because I know how it looks, is easier to clean and stabilises it for the future. I have the world's best sanders and abrasives though and a little bit of practice. I simply sand the entire surface smooth with a fine paper, you don't remove the galleries or flight holes, or fill them, you simply smooth the wood around, really loose bits flake off but most will be incredibly hard. I sanded a 300 - 400 year old massively worm eaten elm floor near Banbury last year and that was unbelievably hard. You could sand the whole thing with a high quality, sharp P120 grit paper and a block. Search for Norton A975 ceramic 150mm discs and a 6 inch velcro sanding block. You could probably remove the paint with that too.

The bottom line is it looks great like it is, there is no need to do anything and doing nothing is probably the best form of conservation for dry interior timber in a damp free home.

As regards the sidings that were plastered, maybe replaster them, looks like a historic alteration and you have enough beautiful period timber to enjoy, you don't really need any more.

 

[Toby Newell]

I should add the janky (new word - thank you) was left bare after removing the original lime plaster as the builder thought it looked nice bare (I was never convinced) so not too worried about getting it plastered. It is quite interesting seeing that it is sat on a layer of stone though which may be lost if plastered over.

Meh. If you remove the siding you are messing more, looks like you have enough lovely stone to enjoy. Maybe it's not great underneath. Your stone pointing looks fairly janky too on the exposed stuff, maybe replastering is the best option, although removing it would give you a little more room. It's not listed so you can do as you please. Maybe they plastered it for a reason.

 

[Zebra]

Yeah, I have some bits like that and I've just left them. Leave as much wood on as you can, I'd say, because if you try to take it back you'll just end up with a hole.

 

[Toby Newell]

Yep. Nothing wrong with worm ridden, wonky, holey wood, it's what people pay good money for. And unless a material is at risk of significant deterioration then leaving it alone is the best form of conservation. If you remove the sidings you will probably have to replace with something else anyway if you want to replaster.

From an aesthetic point of view applying a finish can be nice and the sanding rarely removes a lot of timber and often enhances the patination. It's simply a matter of choice and not required to preserve the wood. I think all this 'nourishment' BS must of been started by a wax salesman!

 

[Toby Newell]

Yeah, I have some bits like that and I've just left them. Leave as much wood on as you can, I'd say, because if you try to take it back you'll just end up with a hole.

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Championship winning iron stains there Zeb, well done.

 

[Oldish House]

Ok, you have convinced me that less is more. I will look at any loose bits then its just that damn spray paint which may need sanding but will see.

Cheers all, its very much appreciated.