Why preserve our past?

[Nemesis]

Look also at the new Sec of State's speech at the recent launch of Heritage Counts.

Fine words - wonder if they will actually mean much though?


http://periodpropertyshop.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8627

 

[Lime]

I wonder just how much our interest in things historic are related to our childhood experiences?
The school I attended was certainly old, full of tradition and custom so it rubbed off onto me whether I liked it or not.
It certainly gave me a feeling of belonging to the school more so than to belonging to a group, gang or year of school children.
Not only did the school buildings give the past some substance but they also represented the previous pupils that lived and worked in them.

Later I went to Harrow Tech for a short while which was a modern building then.
The lifts impressed me (and the girls) but I found the building quite without soul or character.
A thoroughly uninteresting and boring experience of what could be done with concrete.

 

[skier-hughes]

Interesting survey,
Question - how many times do you visit historic buildings in a year?
Answer 365 :lol:

 

[Penners]

I aim to establish why Stowe is worth spending so much time, money and effort on. It is still being used as a school, would there would be a greater benefit to the students if they were to have a new school built specifically for this purpose?

I confess to having spent five of my formative years at Stowe. I have absolutely no idea whether those years did anything to set the foundation of my adult love of period buildings, because to me (and I venture to suggest most of my schoolmates) the sense of awe and wonder at the buildings, the gardens and the park didn't figure much in our day-to-day school life.

It was school. We were caught up in the daily routine of school - classes, sports, societies, personal relationships, student politics, complaints about the food... and so on. The architecture of the buildings in which we carried out these activities was of little relevance to our enjoyment (or otherwise) of them.

From time to time you might have a visitor whose jaw-dropping reaction to the place reminded you to look at it afresh. But this was short-lived.

Perhaps I sound very cynical and dismissive about the school - I hope not. I'm just trying to explain why I don't believe that the current multi-million-pound restoration of the gardens, the temples and follies and the main house will be of much benefit to the pupils. What benefits them is a new swimming pool, science block, playing field, etc. The glories of, for example, the library ceiling have little or no relevance to the benefit that they derive from the school.

And that's as it should be. The restoration is not for the pupils. That kind of eye-watering expenditure could never be justified as a way of improving the educational environment of a few hundred very privileged kids.

The restoration is for the nation. In adulthood I have, of course, come to see the place with new eyes, and in my view Stowe House and its grounds represent one of the very greatest architectural achievements in Britain - indeed, in the world. Its grandeur and beauty are truly breathtaking and as a nation we would have failed disgracefully in our duty to future generations if we had not taken steps to ensure that they can see it with their own eyes, as we can.

Yes, the money that has been spent on the place could probably have built a new, better school for the pupils. But that's not what the money is for.

 

[Nemesis]

Interesting survey,
Question - how many times do you visit historic buildings in a year?
Answer 365 :lol:

More in a Leap Year.

Odd view of historic buildings as something apart to be 'visited'? I rather think we are surrounded by them! Literally as I type...

 

[Juju]

Yes it's interesting speculating where our interest in historic buildings comes from. I think mine came from loving my grandparents' house - it was just a regular Victorian terrace with no mod cons but even as a child, I loved the tall ceilings and fireplaces, etc and even the outside loo. And maybe also my school which was a Georgian building and the sense of history associated with it. My parents regularly took us to museums and historic buildings but they and two of my siblings only like living in modern properties. As far as they're concerned, old houses are for visiting not living in! My twin brother and I on the other hand would only consider buying old houses and we've been a bit competitive about getting the oldest house. I'm currently winning that one by 130 years...

 

[skier-hughes]

Did you got to any other schools Penners?
I had to, as my parents moved a bit, so I went to 3 secondary schools. I must say that the environment certainly played a part in whether I enjoyed the school or not. Never being in one school long enough to make best friends, always coming in as an outsider, the way the school was made a big impact on my learning and enjoyment.

You may well have a different opinion on your time at Stowe school if you'd had to suffer a few years in a modern comprehensive concrete block.
I ensured my son didn't have to go through what I did, he remained at one school.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I aim to establish why Stowe is worth spending so much time, money and effort on. It is still being used as a school, would there would be a greater benefit to the students if they were to have a new school built specifically for this purpose?

I confess to having spent five of my formative years at Stowe. I have absolutely no idea whether those years did anything to set the foundation of my adult love of period buildings, because to me (and I venture to suggest most of my schoolmates) the sense of awe and wonder at the buildings, the gardens and the park didn't figure much in our day-to-day school life.

It was school. We were caught up in the daily routine of school - classes, sports, societies, personal relationships, student politics, complaints about the food... and so on. The architecture of the buildings in which we carried out these activities was of little relevance to our enjoyment (or otherwise) of them.

From time to time you might have a visitor whose jaw-dropping reaction to the place reminded you to look at it afresh. But this was short-lived.

Perhaps I sound very cynical and dismissive about the school - I hope not. I'm just trying to explain why I don't believe that the current multi-million-pound restoration of the gardens, the temples and follies and the main house will be of much benefit to the pupils. What benefits them is a new swimming pool, science block, playing field, etc. The glories of, for example, the library ceiling have little or no relevance to the benefit that they derive from the school.

And that's as it should be. The restoration is not for the pupils. That kind of eye-watering expenditure could never be justified as a way of improving the educational environment of a few hundred very privileged kids.

The restoration is for the nation. In adulthood I have, of course, come to see the place with new eyes, and in my view Stowe House and its grounds represent one of the very greatest architectural achievements in Britain - indeed, in the world. Its grandeur and beauty are truly breathtaking and as a nation we would have failed disgracefully in our duty to future generations if we had not taken steps to ensure that they can see it with their own eyes, as we can.

Yes, the money that has been spent on the place could probably have built a new, better school for the pupils. But that's not what the money is for.

Funny, my old professor went to Stowe too, and claimed it had no effect on his subsequent career as an architect.

Penner's and my Prof's old school:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/19818

One of my old prof's buildings:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/325170

hmmmmm. I think the influence is obvious :roll:

 

[Nemesis]

You know, there is something not quite right about the pavilions. Too dominant.




IoE Number: 396413
Location: THE MANSION WITH ATTACHED SERVICE RANGES (NOW NUGENT HOUSE, COBHAM HOUSE AND GRAFTON HOUSE),
STOWE, AYLESBURY VALE, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE
Photographer: Mr Alistair F Nisbet
Date Photographed: 13 September 2005
Date listed: 25 September 1951
Date of last amendment: 21 April 1983
Grade I



SP 6737 STOWE 9/57 STOWE SCHOOL The Mansion with attached service ranges (now Nugent House, Cobham House and Grafton House) (formerly listed as Stowe House) 25.9.51 GV I Mansion of 1680 by William Cleare for Sir Richard Temple. Greatly altered and enlarged in stages until 1779, by Vanbrugh in the 1720's for Viscount Cobham, Gibbs 1740's for Lord Cobham. Work also by Leoni and Kent. South front 1771 by Thomas Pitt (Lord Camelford) based on design of Robert Adam, for Earl Temple. North front: stucco with stone portico and dressings. Roof concealed by balustraded parapet. Three storeys and basement, cornice at second floor. Eleven bays, the two end bays projecting; sash windows, architraves only to end bays. Central portico with steps and flanking stone lions. Ionic pilasters, 4 Ionic columns, design attributed to Vanbrugh or Leoni. Curved Ionic colonnades added 1771-2 by William Ride, perhaps to designs by Pitt or Lord Temple. Screen walls each side with Ionic order. c1780 by Valdre, pierced by pair of tall pedimented gateways leading to the service yards, c1744 by Kent, originally freestanding. (for gateways at right angles, see separate item). South front: ashlar, basement and one lofty storey. Balustraded parapets. Central block with 5-bay corinthian portico with steps, flanked by triple windows under semi-circular tympana. Giant corinthian pilasters each side. Lower colonnaded links, arcaded at basement level, attach centre block to two large pavilions, with giant corinthian pilasters and three bays of triple windows under semi-circular tympana. At each end, a 2-storey arcaded wing of 5 bays with blank arcading, connects to the service wings, now boarding houses, early C18, attributed to Vanbrugh. Stucco with ironstone dressings, slate roofs, eaves cornices two storeys, first floor bands. Nugent House, at the west end, has a central 5 bay block, the central bay projecting and pedimented on both sides. Five arches on the east elevation. Two bay single storey links each side. Northern block pedimented at each end, wooden cupola at east end of roof. Cobham House, at east end of Mansion is similar in design. Grafton House, attached at the east end is similar, with a basement storey faced in ironstone, central pedimented bay with arch, modern Mansard roof. Interior: North entrance hall decoration before c1732 by Kent. Oval saloon with doric columns and pantheon ceiling. c1780 by Valdre (probably based on design by G F Blondel). Music Room painted by Valdre with 'Pompeian' decoration. Library, in E. link, 7 bays with ornamental ceiling, Dining Hall, in W. link, ceiling c1750. Two easterly state rooms with late C18 ornamental ceilings. Basement: Gothic library, vestibule and staircase 1805-06 by Soane. Remains of early C19 Egyptian style entrance hall with two carved columns and frieze. First floor: Garter Room ceiling by Borra c.1760 renewed and altered 1930's. Chapel: upper part, with coffered ceiling. RCHM II p.287 MON.6

 

[Gareth Hughes]

You know, there is something not quite right about the pavilions. Too dominant.

Yes, that's because it's all a tacky 1770s refacing and extension of a much smaller house. The gardens were more impressive before all the flower beds and formality were done away with too.

 

[Nemesis]

But in some places the additions are fine, in this it seems to me the pavilions try to fight.

 

[Moo]

Those 1770s modernisers have got a lot to answer for.

 

[Nemesis]

The pavilions, however, do fight. Too dominant.

 

[Penners]

Penner's and my Prof's old school:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/19818

One of my old prof's buildings:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/325170

hmmmmm. I think the influence is obvious

Quite so. You can also see it in a building that I recently designed:

 

[Penners]

The gardens were more impressive before all the flower beds and formality were done away with too.

A little subjective, maybe?

Personally, I much prefer the wonderful sweeping lawns, lakes and glades of good old Lancelot to the earlier tight fussiness of a formal Italianate garden.

 

[Matt Green]

Personally, I much prefer the wonderful sweeping lawns, lakes and glades of good old Lancelot to the earlier tight fussiness of a formal Italianate garden.

Coldest. Survey. Ever.

The cornice work on the Corinthean Arch has a timber frame you know...
February, no plans, contractors opening up as we moved along it on an open scaffold.

I got hitched in the temple of Concorde and Victory though, so I have a soft spot for the place.

Matt

 

[Penners]

I had no idea it was timber-framed, but this (very slow) web page has an interesting photo.

http://www.cleftwood.com/buildingjune2007.html

I do, however, remember that there is a house in each "leg" of the arch. You have to stand at the sides to see the windows.

The Temple of Concord has been beautifully restored by the NT. Must have been a wonderful place for a wedding.

 

[Goose01]

Hello!

Cheers for all your responses, its a great help. I've still got to get 30 more responses on my online survey to bring it up to a round 100, thought I could be cheeky and ask any of you kind souls who have a spare minute to fill it in- it's only short! I've already been out on the streets harassing people, don't really fancy doing that again! If you could get as many of your friends and family to answer it as well, I should be able to get the final numbers, which would definately be handy since I had planned to get my dissertation written by the xmas hols- yeah that might not happen. Who needs a break anyway!

Here's the link-
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=6wj277mxotx0odw358564

Ta very much!!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

An Old Stoic no less!! I'll post the rest of my comments on your pm.

 

[Nemesis]

I've filled it in and passed it on, but as most folks I know work in conservation the results may be a spot skewed!