Unexpectedly back to brick

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Good evening all

I’ve painstakingly removed a strip of woodchip wallpaper to finally start the process of decorating over some electrical chasing. I have some questions at the bottom of my post - I’d really appreciate some advice.

For some background, when I took the wallpaper off I found that a 10cm-wide strip from top to bottom (purple section in one of the attached photos) felt hollow, presumably when the electrician was working on it.

When I chipped away at it (not too much force, enough to remove loose bits) some of it has gone back to brick. I feel I could probably take most of that purple strip back to brick, although I don’t really want to as I’m worried about building up layers of polyfilla onto brick.

My questions are:
- In the areas I’ve gone back to brick, can I use polyfilla + scrim tape? The plaster layer that’s come off was only around 15-20mm. Will the polyfilla adhere to the bricks? Or should I use some form of bonding coat?

- In your opinion, should I force the rest of the hollow plaster off, and build up the layers from brick again (using polyfilla)?

- Lastly, slightly unrelated, but is it a bad idea to use orange scrim tape if I’m planning to paint over it with white paint? In the kitchen I’m fixing up some chasing and I’ll be using scrim + Toupret to strengthen/fill/skim. I’m just slightly worried that after mist coat + 2 coats of durable Matt paint, the orange may still show???

Thanks in advance.

 

[fernicarry]

For a larger repair like that you'd be better off getting a bucket of ready mixed coarse haired lime. Polyfilla isn't suitable for that depth. I use Wormerley's mainly because you don't have to pay an extortionate rate for postage. No need for bonding just give it a really good damp down first with a pump action sprayer. Ideally a few hours in advance and again when you start the work. I invariably forget the advance damping but seem to get away with it.

Best to remove anything that isn't completely sound. Are you close to a doorway on the left side? The architrave will overlap the plaster and its a royal pig when it falls out leaving a void behind. Partly fill the repair with the coarse stuff up to about 2 or 3 mill below the finished surface. I don't use scrim tape because the haired lime gets a good grip on the surrounding plaster. Wear gloves, lime is caustic.

I generally finish off with Toupret tape and fill because I've never got the hang of feathering fine lime into the surrounding area. The Toupret being very fine and sandable makes up for my rubbish plastering skills. For a relatively small area the reduced breathability shouldn't matter.

The scrim tape should end up covered by the top layer of skim so really shouldn't be a concern for painting. If its sitting proud you'll either need to dig it out and redo it or feather a further layer of plaster over the top and a short distance either side to blend it in.

 

[jamest]

All sound advice from Fernicarry there, but with one caveat. Postage for up there in the frozen wastes of Argyllshire may be extortionate, but us sassenachs can benefit from cheaper rates. I find that Mike Wye and Ty Mawr are cheaper than Wormesleys even with their postage costs. For example, Mike Wye will charge you just under £13 for 20 kg of coarse stuff and about £20 shipping, but that's still cheaper than Wormesleys, which is £34.99 for 12 ltrs (~kg) (following Fernicarry's link).

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

I hadn’t come across a product like this before - thanks for recommending it. Looking at the application instructions though, I think I’ll struggle to use it for my deadline - I have 12 days before security engineer comes in, and I need that corner plastered, wallpapered and painted!

I’ll probably now go with Thistle bonding coat, and then skim with Toupret fine filler - does that seem reasonable? Sounds like you recommend covering the replastered area with Toupret tape then skimming over it. Let me know if I’ve got that wrong - I can’t believe how stressed I’m getting by this wall! But better late than never as I expect this will happen in other rooms too as I slowly redecorate.

I think I’ll end up removing that entire purple column of old plaster. It does feel hollow - I’ll just have to use a bit more force (slightly worried as I haven’t gone back to brick before, and don’t wanna bite off more than I can chew).

Yes, there’s a door architrave to the left. The previous homeowner had wallpapered over onto the edge of the architrave. Now that I’ve removed the wallpaper, I can see there is roughly a 2-3mm gap between the architrave and the wall and I’m seeing this as an opportunity to tuck the new strip of wallpaper into that gap, rather than overlap it onto the architrave. When I replaster in the coming days, I was hoping yo keep that small gap, and after the wallpaper is up, I’d caulk any remaining gaps (HB42 caulk worked pretty well in the bedroom corners and the gaps in the worn skerting).

I’ll have to do a better job skimming the orange scrim tape. Last time i didnt mind it showing as I ended up wallpapering over it, but this time I’ll be painting over it (in the kitchen). I’ll do my best to make sure it’s got good coverage when I’m skimming it.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

All sound advice from Fernicarry there, but with one caveat. Postage for up there in the frozen wastes of Argyllshire may be extortionate, but us sassenachs can benefit from cheaper rates. I find that Mike Wye and Ty Mawr are cheaper than Wormesleys even with their postage costs. For example, Mike Wye will charge you just under £13 for 20 kg of coarse stuff and about £20 shipping, but that's still cheaper than Wormesleys, which is £34.99 for 12 ltrs (~kg) (following Fernicarry's link).

Thanks for all these recommendations. I’m going to look into these for larger parts of the wall that might be damaged/blown.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

I forgot to mention, when we do a loft extension in the future, we will probably move the door and architrave away from the wall - not a big fan of having it up against the wall like this. This will also mean we can get rid of the decommissioned lead pipe that you can see in one of the pictures. It starts in the loft and seems to be strangely embedded within the walls

 

[fernicarry]

Looking at the application instructions though, I think I’ll struggle to use it for my deadline

I find the coarse stuff is firm enough to skim over within a few days. Depending on heat and humidity in the room of course. If its firm enough for finger pressure to not leave a mark but you can still stick your fingernail in then its ready for the next coat. Maybe give it a bit of a squirt and a bash with a brush (a stiff dust brush is fine) each day in case of shrinkage. The coarse stuff is actually really easy to work with and sticks like the proverbial so stays where you put it. Give it a go, then you'll have the warm satisfaction of having used (mainly) the right materials.

Even if you don't meet your deadline you can always have the security guy (I refuse to use the term "engineer" in this context...) fit the detectors anyway and then you can remove them and decorate around them. Get him to show you how to put the panel into engineer (oh well...) or installer mode so that it doesn't freak out when you disconnect something. If its wireless it might not mind but there might be a tamper switch behind the detector to cause it to freak out if its removed from the wall. There won't be any harmful voltage at the detectors.

At some point down the line when you next decorate you'll need to be able to do this anyway. Unless you do what a previous owner did here which was to cut their extremely expensive William Morris wallpaper around the detector! Now that I've replaced the detectors I have a little patch of the previous wallpaper showing through and of course its faded so using a spare piece won't look right either.

roughly a 2-3mm gap between the architrave and the wall and I’m seeing this as an opportunity to tuck the new strip of wallpaper into that gap

Yes, absolutely do that. I love it when I get to tuck the edge of the paper behind something and then I caulk the gap and tool it off to a perfect 90' angle with a silicon thingy. So much easier to get a good straight edge on the paint line when you have a nicely defined corner. The thing thats a nightmare is when the plaster falls out from behind the architrave and you need to build it back up again to the same level without closing up that little gap. Most plasterers will of course happily half-bury the joinery...

 

[fernicarry]

recommend covering the replastered area with Toupret tape then skimming over it

Just noticed this. No you don't need tape. The Toupret product is Joint and fill but there are various other similar products around. Taping and scrimming is really only needed where you are using fixed sized boards as you need something to bridge the edges to prevent relative movement. For that reason I'd argue you didn't really need it over your electrical capping so long as there is a decent depth of plaster over it. The fibres in the coarse lime perform a similar role.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Thanks for sharing your experiences working with the coarse stuff. I’m just having a look at delivery etc and will discuss it with my partner. I actually don’t mind take the sensor off again to finish decorating later, but ideally won’t have to do this as it will feel good to have something finished… we’ve been waiting around forever to have this alarm installed!

I do want to work the “right way” even in the chaos of doing all this for the first time. I’m going to have to maintain this house for the next 40 years, so I would like to start working with the right materials. The inevitable “we’ll deal with it during the renovation” does have a habit of popping up though.

I have to admit I do chuckle a little when I append “engineer”. It’s out of habit… I will work technical words into most job titles. For example, last year I spent some time as a “domestic engineer”, and I also met a “food technician” some time ago. Some friends of mine work in the IT world, and they’ll refuse to call someone who develops websites (using HTML) website engineers and stick to website designers!

With the wallpaper behind the architrave, honestly some element of it feels like I’m trying to hide imperfections. I think some part of me secretly hopes that by tucking the wallpaper behind the door architrave, if/when plaster does crumble and the wallpaper peels away, then I won’t need to know about it

Got your point about Toupret tape and scrim. I have lots more electrical chasing to deal with, so I’ll keep this in mind! Will spend some time looking into working with the coarse stuff - excited to try it!

 

[fernicarry]

I used to, and may still again, do software for a living. Knarly back-end stuff. Even so I struggle to describe myself as a software engineer. There's not nearly enough rigour in the IT field to deserve that accolade. Even less so those who take stuff out of boxes and connect them up for a living. Not saying they aren't providing a valuable service but it ain't "engineering" as I understand it.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Now that definitely is engineering! I was roped into trying to learn to code in Python once but I couldn’t get my head around it! Hats off to anyone that can sit and talk to a computer for hours.

I did read a good book many years ago about the origins of the internet…. How it started off as ARPANET and the effort it took to get it to where it is today (and that thousands of miles of underwater cables are a real thing) - that is what I would call real engineering.

 

[Cubist]

@my_name_is_slim_daisy and @fernicarry - please (*&^%*&) stop.

Having recently been granted Lifetime (Remaining) Grumpy Old Git status I am becoming increasingly sensitive to the exigencies of entropy. Your most recent exchanges in this thread have only served to rub a little salt into those wounds insofar that, in addition to a number of modern spoken human languages, I also managed to gain a more than thorough and applied working grasp of ALGOL, FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC+, C, C++, HTML and others - simply because I was, and remain, an untrusting soul who would not rely on others to explain what was spoken or had been written in my presence. Sadly though my facility to fluently curse in Hexadecimal has atrophied and the translated version of the word I might have used between 'please' and 'stop' above would no doubt draw the ire of the administrators.

On a more pertinent note.

My father, when told that some of my then colleagues were termed Systems Engineers, nearly choked on his beer while trying to ask me just where the 'oily bits' were in the kit I used at work. As far as he was concerned an engineer could only be someone that knew the difference between a set-bolt and a rivet. Now I think about, he had a similar response a few years later when I tried to explain how I made my living by likening it to a Rubik's cube - some clot had wrongly badged me as a Solutions Architect in his hearing.

 

[a twig]

some clot had wrongly badged me as a Solutions Architect in his hearing.

Designing buildings were you?

 

[claraclattermole]

Wear goggles when you work with lime. A friend of mine had a nasty accident with a splash in her eye and was lucky not to have perminent damage.

 

[Cubist]

Designing buildings were you?

The only job title I ever felt really comfortable with and considered fitting to my activities and nature was Trouble Maker in Chief - most of the others I was given are not fit for use in polite company.

This leopard has never changed his spots.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Wear goggles when you work with lime. A friend of mine had a nasty accident with a splash in her eye and was lucky not to have perminent damage.

P, P and E…. Always! Thanks @claraclattermole

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

@Cubist Wow, that is a very distinguished CV - a tech recruitment consultant would be licking their lips (but they might not warm to the grumpiness)!

Entropy will consume us all, but at least you still have your wit! I’d be interested to see a curse in hex - that would be very colourful indeed (and wouldn’t be surprised if you were handy at CSS colours).

To be fair when I think of the word Engineer, the first thing that pops into my head is some sort of oily gear or component. The job titles may be a little silly but I guess if there’s fairly rigorous problem solving involved you could argue you are engineering in some way! Like how I’m wallpaper engineering at the moment